The Willful Ignorance of Protestantism

Status
Not open for further replies.

Matthew777

Archon
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
3,497
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Spokane, WA
Website
www.myspace.com
Have you ever noticed how most Protestants, no matter how you address the truth of the Orthodox faith, refuse to listen? It's quite bothersome. Since when is closedmindedness a tenet of the Bible?
I have no anger nor hatred against our Protestant neighbors, but I hope they could be more open to new knowledge and perspectives. And it's not just me, I've spoken with Orthodox clergymen about how, in their own experiences, Protestants can be almost completely unreachable. What's the deal?

Peace.
 

ozgeorge

Hoplitarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
54
Location
Australia
Website
www.greekorthodox.org.au
Matthew777 said:
Have you ever noticed how most Protestants, no matter how you address the truth of the Orthodox faith, refuse to listen?
No, not at all. This is not my own experience.
Perhaps you haven't explored all the ways in which the Orthodox Faith can be offered up for discussion.
For example, calling an entire group of people "Willfully Ignorant" is not going to make them want to hear you out on anything.

 

Matthew777

Archon
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
3,497
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Spokane, WA
Website
www.myspace.com
I find that too many contemporary Americans in general share the mentality of "I've made up my mind, don't bother me with the facts." Democrats and Republicans, Protestants and Catholics, Southerners and "Yankees," etc. Everything has become so polarized that people aren't able to consider new information that is contrary to their own worldview.

Peace.
 

ozgeorge

Hoplitarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
54
Location
Australia
Website
www.greekorthodox.org.au
Well then, perhaps you may want to consider changing the title of this thread to something that may invite discussion about this phenomenon of poilarization you encounter rather than alienate an entire group of posters and add to that polarization yourself?
 

Aristocles

Merarches
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
10,031
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Pittsburgh
ozgeorge said:
Well then, perhaps you may want to consider changing the title of this thread to something that may invite discussion about this phenomenon of poilarization you encounter rather than alienate an entire group of posters and add to that polarization yourself?
"The Woefull Ignorance of M....", no, no, no....  ;)

The only thing that ticks me off in engaging Protestants is having to defend RCs for a large part of the discussion.
Polarization? No way...I listen to the other side at least two or three pico-seconds
 

Keble

Protokentarchos
Joined
Mar 31, 2003
Messages
3,623
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
60
Location
Maryland
Matthew777 said:
Have you ever noticed how most Protestants, no matter how you address the truth of the Orthodox faith, refuse to listen?
Perhaps it's because most Protestants, like most people, aren't interested in getting sucked into a round of religious contentiousness.

And I suppose the whole thing is balanced out by all those orthodox who can figure out that Prestantism covers more territory than Southern Baptists.
 

Panagiotis

Elder
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
406
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
47
Location
Fond Du Lac, WI
Website
twocentphilosophist.blogspot.com
Sadly I find pretty much all of what M7's statements are to be truthful in most cases. But the witness I discovered to reign very true to the Protestants I know is to just live the Orthodox Life, and after the few jokes every season some start joining me in Church or start attending ones close to them. No conversions yet but I do have one Catechumen from my old peer herd.

Blessings,
Panagiotis
 

serb1389

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
9,123
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Vallejo, CA (current); Gurnee, IL (greater Chicag
Website
www.greekorthodoxvallejo.org
Αριστοκλής said:
The only thing that ticks me off in engaging Protestants is having to defend RCs for a large part of the discussion.
ME TOO!!!!!!!!  I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me.  I end up saying things like "RC's arn't really THAT bad"  :D  Actually, in a lot of ways they really have things going for them.  And its not like we orthodox don't have our issues either...

Anyway, it really is amazing how a lot of Protestants that i've talked to automatically associate Orthodoxy with Catholicism (roman).  Which brings me to the original question, why is it that they can't seam to break from their "world view"?? 

I think we need to try different approaches, as someone else said.  I also think that we need to be patient...really, really, really patient.  If you try telling a hard-core Serbian person who Christ REALLY is (loving, carring, wants you to take communion) they might flip a lid.  So it goes for anyone who has entrenched themselves in one view. 
 

Papist

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
13,771
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
39
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Matthew777 said:
Have you ever noticed how most Protestants, no matter how you address the truth of the Orthodox faith, refuse to listen? It's quite bothersome. Since when is closedmindedness a tenet of the Bible?
I have no anger nor hatred against our Protestant neighbors, but I hope they could be more open to new knowledge and perspectives. And it's not just me, I've spoken with Orthodox clergymen about how, in their own experiences, Protestants can be almost completely unreachable. What's the deal?

Peace.
My best friend is a Protestant. He is an amazing man. God loving and devout. We have discussed Christian history and theology a great deal. I can say that he is genuinely convinced that Protestantism is true. If he was not convinced of this he would not be a Protestant. I believe he is mistaken in his theology, but I do not doubt for a second that he is following what he believes to be the true expression of Christianity. And there in lies the the complex nature of conversion. If a person truely believes that his religion is true, then he feels no reason to seek out something else.
Many blessings in Christ.
 

drewmeister2

Elder
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
415
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Arizona
Papist said:
My best friend is a Protestant. He is an amazing man. God loving and devout. We have discussed Christian history and theology a great deal. I can say that he is genuinely convinced that Protestantism is true. If he was not convinced of this he would not be a Protestant. I believe he is mistaken in his theology, but I do not doubt for a second that he is following what he believes to be the true expression of Christianity. And there in lies the the complex nature of conversion. If a person truely believes that his religion is true, then he feels no reason to seek out something else.
Many blessings in Christ.
I've wondered that myself.  I used to be a very strong Catholic, went to a conservative Catholic school, thought I was going to be a priest, was reading Aquinas on my own and taught a few theology classes, etc.  Now I am on my journey to converting to Orthodoxy.  Why did I look elsewhere?  Partially because of all the mess I saw with Vatican II (I looked at the traditionalists), but I also looked outside Catholicism because I felt something was lacking even in Traditional Catholicism.  So you never know, your friend may end up leaving Protestantism :).  If you asked me 3-4 years ago if I would be where I am right now, I'd tell you that you are crazy.  Of course now, I wouldn't seek out anything else, after seeing the beauty and glory of Orthodoxy, I have never seen anything that comes close. 
 

Matthew777

Archon
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
3,497
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Spokane, WA
Website
www.myspace.com
Many American Protestants have never even heard of Orthodoxy, and if you try to explain to them what it is, they will brush it off as inconsequential or "the traditions of men" or "not the Bible alone," etc.

Peace.
 

Rastaman

Protokentarchos
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
3,535
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Alberta, Canada
Matthew777 said:
Have you ever noticed how most Protestants, no matter how you address the truth of the Orthodox faith, refuse to listen? It's quite bothersome. Since when is closedmindedness a tenet of the Bible?
I have no anger nor hatred against our Protestant neighbors, but I hope they could be more open to new knowledge and perspectives. And it's not just me, I've spoken with Orthodox clergymen about how, in their own experiences, Protestants can be almost completely unreachable. What's the deal?
Ummm...yeah.  Mattiewos 7:4-6

Or were those three verses deleted from the Biblical Canon of Matthew777??  :mad:
 

Matthew777

Archon
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
3,497
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Spokane, WA
Website
www.myspace.com
Making the observation that many people are either unable or unwilling to consider the Orthodox faith in a logical way is not being judgemental, it's being honest.

Peace.
 

Matthew777

Archon
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
3,497
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
34
Location
Spokane, WA
Website
www.myspace.com
Keble said:
Perhaps it's because most Protestants, like most people, aren't interested in getting sucked into a round of religious contentiousness.
Why hasn't an honest and thorough investigation of Church history converted you to the Orthodox faith?

Peace.
 

Theognosis

Sr. Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
248
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
48
Have you ever noticed how most Protestants, no matter how you address the truth of the Orthodox faith, refuse to listen? It's quite bothersome. Since when is closedmindedness a tenet of the Bible?
I have no anger nor hatred against our Protestant neighbors, but I hope they could be more open to new knowledge and perspectives. And it's not just me, I've spoken with Orthodox clergymen about how, in their own experiences, Protestants can be almost completely unreachable. What's the deal?
I think the "deal" is that most Protestants rely too much on their emotions in discerning the truth.  It is this theatrical and carnal approach to Christianity that sets them apart from both Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Once they have laughed enough, cried enough and hated enough, that's the only time they will seek the kind of spirituality, mysticism and philosophy that only the Orthodox Church can offer.
 

serb1389

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
9,123
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Vallejo, CA (current); Gurnee, IL (greater Chicag
Website
www.greekorthodoxvallejo.org
Theognosis said:
I think the "deal" is that most Protestants rely too much on their emotions in discerning the truth.  It is this theatrical and carnal approach to Christianity that sets them apart from both Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Once they have laughed enough, cried enough and hated enough, that's the only time they will seek the kind of spirituality, mysticism and philosophy that only the Orthodox Church can offer.
This is a very interesting observation.  Can you maybe go into this more?  What makes you say this?  What do you think is behind it?  Etc. 
 

Brian

Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
128
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Theognosis said:
I think the "deal" is that most Protestants rely too much on their emotions in discerning the truth.  It is this theatrical and carnal approach to Christianity that sets them apart from both Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Once they have laughed enough, cried enough and hated enough, that's the only time they will seek the kind of spirituality, mysticism and philosophy that only the Orthodox Church can offer.
I would be interested in what your definition of "Protestant" is.  I suspect that there is a lot of question begging involved, as in:

Protestants are by definition people who claim they have found the truth based on their emotions, as opposed to their reason, unlike us rational Orthodox and Catholics.  Therefore "I think the "deal" is that most Protestants rely too much on their emotions in discerning the truth.  It is this theatrical and carnal approach to Christianity that sets them apart from both Catholicism and Orthodoxy."

By the way, I am a Lutheran (you know, THOSE Protestants), inquiring into Orthodoxy.  Last I checked there was little theatrical carnality in our Lutheran liturgy, just heartfull (you know, that central faculty of the soul) prayer in and with the Spirit and thanks to and in communion with the Lord.  Perhaps you didn't get the memo?  Or perhaps you think that the TBN crowd is representative of Protestantism?

And for the other commenters on this thread, I would note that I have never expected an Orthodox to defend a Catholic on a point of faith - seems kind of like asking a Calvinist to defend a Mormon.  Nor do I consider Catholics in general to be other than intelligent, informed, and sincere in their faith, as most Protestants also are (and some are not).  That being said, I sometimes wonder about you Orthodox.  ;) I am inquiring into Orthodoxy for a number of reasons, but certainly not because Orthodox are somehow inherently more rational or less emotional than us 'Protestants'.  Do I detect a bit of sinful pride at work in this Protestant bashing?  The Lord moves whom He will for His reasons, not yours.  His will be done.

By the way again, for those of you who have this chip on your shoulder about how little known or understood Orthodoxy is among Protestants, perhaps you should stop blaming their ignorance on them and look at yourselves.  If their ignorance so offends you, it is your responsibility to do something about it.  That is what we in the adult world call "taking responsibility", an integral part of "growing up."

Now that I think on it, this whole thread reminds me of a conversation I had a few years back with a couple young male co-workers.  We were out on the town one night sitting at an outdoor cafe and they were complaining about how they didn't have girlfriends at the time.  Meanwhile I looked over and saw plenty of pretty young things also out enjoying the summer evening.  So I said to them straight up, "Why are you sitting here over your suds complaining to me about it?  If you were really desperate for a girlfriend you would be out there getting one!"  At this they both sort of started, looked at me, looked at each other, then one of them said, "Damn, you're absolutely right!" and we all busted out laughing.  The moral of the story?  Simple: Be a man.  If you see something you don't like that you have the power to do something about, don't sit around complaining in your suds to your buds.

Cheers and God bless your efforts to spread the Gospel,
Brian
 

scamandrius

Merarches
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
9,377
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
44
Location
Omaha
Αριστοκλής said:
"The only thing that ticks me off in engaging Protestants is having to defend RCs for a large part of the discussion.
A Southern Baptist recently came to my door to invite me to his church for Sunday which then brought on a twenty minute discussion on the faith before he started to get quite distressed by the answers I was giving him, not because they were different from his beliefs but because he thought that they were true. But he began his whole speech by assaulting Roman Catholicism; I had to ask repeatedly to tone down the Catholic bashing.  But then I realized that I have done more than my share of that.  Otherwise, he was quite cordial and I, in turn, invited him to Saturday Great Vespers and the Liturgy.  It seems that Protestantism has become a cultural identity of its own.  It's the "I can't become Orthodox because I was born Protestant" excuse.  But the truth takes longer with some people; you can only hope and pray.

scamandrius
 

BoredMeeting

High Elder
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
722
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
The People's Republic of Maryland
Brian said:
Do I detect a bit of sinful pride at work in this Protestant bashing?
I think it's fatigue, actually. You can only listen to someone pontificate on the subject of "But the 2nd Commandment forbids use of these graven images!" in regards to icons only so many times before you start "getting a little snippy about it."
 

Brian

Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
128
Reaction score
0
Points
0
BoredMeeting said:
I think it's fatigue, actually. You can only listen to someone pontificate on the subject of "But the 2nd Commandment forbids use of these graven images!" in regards to icons only so many times before you start "getting a little snippy about it."
That sounds just like the lame excuses used by my friends complaining over their suds about not having girlfriends rather than going out and doing something about it.  My advice is the same - deal with your problems directly rather than seeking comfort through suds with buds, otherwise you are just tip-toing effeminately around the problem.  Instead of getting "snippy" in a public forum over "Protestants" in general, which is just a way of avoiding any real issues, and which is furthermore an unwarranted, unjustified, and untruthful generalization that is both insulting and discouraging to Protestants like myself, why don't you simply get snippy with the specific people who "fatigue" you?  Time to grow up boys, stop blaming your frustrations, failures, and fatiques on Protestants, because your frustrations ultimately stem from something within yourself rather than in the supposed bad behavior of those nasty "others".  Okay, that's enough tough love for the day.  I'll leave you to your sudsy ponderings.

:p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top