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Thoughts on the British Orthodox Church?

LivenotoneviL

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Lost for now.
What are your thoughts, particularly for the Oriental Orthodox or those who are knowledgeable about the Oriental Orthodox, in regards to their liturgical praxis, their canonical status, their history, etc.
 

WPM

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British isn't in America.
 

hecma925

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There are a few threads on the subject.
 

peterfarrington

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I was a priest of the British Orthodox Diocese. They are now two bishops, one consecrated solus by the other, and two priests. They have returned to their non-Canonical state. They use the Coptic Rite, vestments etc, and the Liturgy of St James. From 1994 until 2015 they were a Diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Church.
 

Alpha60

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LivenotoneviL said:
What are your thoughts, particularly for the Oriental Orthodox or those who are knowledgeable about the Oriental Orthodox, in regards to their liturgical praxis, their canonical status, their history, etc.
If memory serves, Metropolitan Seraphim is the nephew of a chap who stylef himself Catholicos of the West, who was seeking to “collect” lines of apostolic succession, and IIRC was also the founder of what became the Ecclesia Gnostica (gnosis.org).

By the way, I would love to see the rubrics for the divine liturgy of St. James they were using before the rupture.  If memory serves, most of the faithful left and are under the pastoral care of Fr. Peter and the Coptic bishop of the UK, St. George’s Mission.

So, I consider the British Orthodox Church properly speaking to consist of St. George’s Mission, the Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain, the Antiochian (archdiocese), the Metropolis of Sourozh, the ROCOR churches, the Syriac, Armenian and Ethiopian churches, and the other canonical churches, since the entity which calls itself the British Orthodox Church tragically decided to commit ecclesiastical suicide.

I know of a small Syriac jursidiction in the US that is descended from the American Catholic Church of Rene Vilatte whose clergy would literally resign if one of the canonical Orthodox churches were to step in and provide for their small flock even on the terms of St. George’s Mission; the status of what Metropolitan Seraphim had is beyond their wildest hopes.  It is such a tragedy that he decided to throw it away.  Even if he resigned and replaced himself I doubt the Coptic Church would re-receive him, although we can pray.  The BOC traces back to a church founded by Metropolitan Jules Ferrette, who, if memory serves, unlike Vilatte was not vagante.
 
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Alpha60 said:
LivenotoneviL said:
What are your thoughts, particularly for the Oriental Orthodox or those who are knowledgeable about the Oriental Orthodox, in regards to their liturgical praxis, their canonical status, their history, etc.
If memory serves, Metropolitan Seraphim is the nephew of a chap who stylef himself Catholicos of the West, who was seeking to “collect” lines of apostolic succession, and IIRC was also the founder of what became the Ecclesia Gnostica (gnosis.org).

By the way, I would love to see the rubrics for the divine liturgy of St. James they were using before the rupture.
I don't know whether it's the same as pre-1994 but they give their current liturgical text here.  I know that their old Liturgy of St James continued to be used in the Celtic Orthodox Church for some time after they split into two separate bodies so perhaps one of the clergy or former of the COC might be able to assist.

...the entity which calls itself the British Orthodox Church tragically decided to commit ecclesiastical suicide.
I find it very unfortunate that they have retreated into isolation when they clearly have such a missionary zeal and much to offer.  I am disappointed that there appears not to have been any move to reconcile with the Celtic Orthodox Church.  I realise that our Western Orthodox Communion is not recognised by everyone but at least they would have been part of a wider family with similar heritage and the same faith rather than an island operating alone.

But then, I suppose the Celtic Orthodox Church has come to look very different from what their united church was nearly a quarter of a century ago, for the COC no longer uses the St James Liturgy regularly and is now decidedly a Western Rite church, in keeping with the wider communion of which it is part.  Their Eucharistic rite is clearly western, and their bishops now look like Western Orthodox bishops.  I seem to recall that Abba Seraphim is not a great enthusiast for the Western Rite within Orthodoxy.
 

Jonathan

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Nothing was lost. All that missionary zeal was from fr Peter, who seems to be doing a lot more now than he was able to under the old organization.
 

WPM

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Yea, ya'll have the "nice little Christian saint" image but in reality is the mean religious.
 

peterfarrington

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There is no missionary zeal in the tiny group of 5 people who still use the name British Orthodox Church. And I don't say that in a hostile manner, but that was a decision taken.

Ferrette was as much a vagante as Villatte. None of the churches descending from them has a legitimacy according to Orthodox understanding, but the Orthodox Church of the British Isles was able to become Orthodox, and many of us joined it to become Orthodox, so that when a few decided to leave Orthodoxy, the majority of those of us who were in the British Orthodox Church, as it had become, naturally wished to remain Orthodox.

The text of the Greek Liturgy of St James we used was a good one for a long period. Quite beautiful. Although at the end it had been damaged by someone fiddling with the text.

Before 1994 the Orthodox Church of the British Isles did not use St James, but a pastiche called "The Liturgy of St Joseph of Arimathea". I do expect to see the tiny British Orthodox Church joining up with other vagante groups in the future. But probably not the Celtic Orthodox Church, since there was such hostility there and reports of serious error, although the BOC has chosen other errors.

I am a priest of the Diocese of the Midlands of the Coptic Orthodox Church, under Bishop Misael. I serve mostly in Liverpool and Manchester. Most others found a home in the care of Archbishop Angaelos in the London Diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Church. A few others joined other Orthodox Churches for convenience, a fewer still resorted to the Roman Catholics. But literally only a handful of British people left Orthodoxy to become the Metropolis of Glastonbury.
 

WPM

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Does the Orthodox Church still ordain as a monk.
 

Volnutt

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WPM said:
Yea, ya'll have the "nice little Christian saint" image but in reality is the mean religious.
It sucks, but I'm pretty sure that's always been true in every religion.
 
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