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UAOC ready to become Constantinople’s metropolis

mike

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Yurysprudentsiya said:
I do know of the dismissal of Metropolitan Oleksandr (Drabynko) of Pereyaslav-Khmelnyts'kyj from his post as Chairman of the Department of External Church Relations of the UOC-MP in late May, which came just two months after he paid a pastoral visit to Ukrainian army troops serving in the East and served Divine Liturgy there. 
You are going into conspiracy theories.
 
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Perhaps it could be read that way.  Honestly, I think that was only the latest in a long line of reasons why they wanted to get rid of him.  I'm really interested to know why they got rid of Fr. Heorhij, however.
 

Cyrillic

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mike said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
I do know of the dismissal of Metropolitan Oleksandr (Drabynko) of Pereyaslav-Khmelnyts'kyj from his post as Chairman of the Department of External Church Relations of the UOC-MP in late May, which came just two months after he paid a pastoral visit to Ukrainian army troops serving in the East and served Divine Liturgy there. 
You are going into conspiracy theories.
What was the official reason?
 

IreneOlinyk

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mike said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
Perhaps seeing what is to come, UOC-MP press secretary (at least he once held this title, I assume that he still does), Fr. Heorhij Kovalenko recently commented on Radio Maria:
He was dismissed from that office a couple of months ago.
Mike is correct. Fr. Heorhij Kovalenko was removed from that postion a few months back.  Radio maria is Roman Catholic, what was Fr. Heorhij Kovalenko doing on that station?
 
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According to the article, he was giving an interview.

You can see more of it here:
http://orthodoxy.org.ua/data/yakshcho-mi-iedini-z-vselenskim-pravoslavyam-maiemo-pragnuti-shchob-i-reshta-pravoslavnih-bula
 

mike

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Cyrillic said:
mike said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
I do know of the dismissal of Metropolitan Oleksandr (Drabynko) of Pereyaslav-Khmelnyts'kyj from his post as Chairman of the Department of External Church Relations of the UOC-MP in late May, which came just two months after he paid a pastoral visit to Ukrainian army troops serving in the East and served Divine Liturgy there. 
You are going into conspiracy theories.
What was the official reason?
AFAIK, nothing specyphic was given.

The fact Metr. Humphrey is clearing the curia out of his predecessor's underlings and introduces his own ones is nothing new, suprising, or scandalizing.
 

mike

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BTW, does the fact UOC-UsA begins to allign with "mainstream" UAOC and that fusion mean they are dropping Isichenko altogether?
 

Orest

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Yurysprudentsiya said:
According to the article, he was giving an interview.

You can see more of it here:
http://orthodoxy.org.ua/data/yakshcho-mi-iedini-z-vselenskim-pravoslavyam-maiemo-pragnuti-shchob-i-reshta-pravoslavnih-bula
Thanks I just read it.  It is just a fluff interview with nothing substantial except that he calls for sobornist in the future united Ukrainian Orthodox Church.  And yes, he did loose his position.
 

ialmisry

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Cyrillic said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
(Translated by me)
"After the unification of the UOC-KP and UAOC, the single national Ukrainian church will be recognized by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, said Archbishop Yevstratij (Zorya), a spokesman for the UOC-KP, on Ukrainian television station Channel 5, reports UNN."

A bit more (in Ukrainian) here:
http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/orthodox/uoc_kp/60252/
Oy vey. I hope that's not true. At least not if the MP isn't on board.
If the Phanar does, it will loose its Ukrainians.
 

Cyrillic

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ialmisry said:
Cyrillic said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
(Translated by me)
"After the unification of the UOC-KP and UAOC, the single national Ukrainian church will be recognized by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, said Archbishop Yevstratij (Zorya), a spokesman for the UOC-KP, on Ukrainian television station Channel 5, reports UNN."

A bit more (in Ukrainian) here:
http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/orthodox/uoc_kp/60252/
Oy vey. I hope that's not true. At least not if the MP isn't on board.
If the Phanar does, it will loose its Ukrainians.
Why?
 

ialmisry

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Cyrillic said:
ialmisry said:
Cyrillic said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
(Translated by me)
"After the unification of the UOC-KP and UAOC, the single national Ukrainian church will be recognized by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, said Archbishop Yevstratij (Zorya), a spokesman for the UOC-KP, on Ukrainian television station Channel 5, reports UNN."

A bit more (in Ukrainian) here:
http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/orthodox/uoc_kp/60252/
Oy vey. I hope that's not true. At least not if the MP isn't on board.
If the Phanar does, it will loose its Ukrainians.
Why?
The nature of phyletism and diaspora politics/mentality. The KPers in the US don't see a difference between the Phanar and the Kremlin.
 

podkarpatska

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Isa, do you mean "loose" or "lose", as either could apply to your point? Thanks.

My problem with phyletism has always been that while all Orthodox agree it is a heresy, defining it in the real world is tough.  Where one man sees  phyletism, another man sees a proper self ruling national Orthodox church which is, by nature, tied in some way to the culture of that "nation." When is it legitimate and when is it not? And in-artful or overly polemic responses are often jumped on by the Papists in support of universal jurisdiction and papal supremacy.  (Or by those whose view of a "nation"  is broader than that of their neighbor.) 
 

Regnare

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ialmisry said:
Cyrillic said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
(Translated by me)
"After the unification of the UOC-KP and UAOC, the single national Ukrainian church will be recognized by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, said Archbishop Yevstratij (Zorya), a spokesman for the UOC-KP, on Ukrainian television station Channel 5, reports UNN."

A bit more (in Ukrainian) here:
http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/orthodox/uoc_kp/60252/
Oy vey. I hope that's not true. At least not if the MP isn't on board.
If the Phanar does, it will loose its Ukrainians.
I'm not so sure. I've been to a couple of Ukrainian churches (UOC of Canada), some quite big, where the prevailing view in the congregation was that the KP is the legitimate church of Ukraine. The priest at one of them went so far as to say "Where is this word 'canonical' in the Bible?"
 

Mor Ephrem

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Regnare said:
ialmisry said:
Cyrillic said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
(Translated by me)
"After the unification of the UOC-KP and UAOC, the single national Ukrainian church will be recognized by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, said Archbishop Yevstratij (Zorya), a spokesman for the UOC-KP, on Ukrainian television station Channel 5, reports UNN."

A bit more (in Ukrainian) here:
http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/orthodox/uoc_kp/60252/
Oy vey. I hope that's not true. At least not if the MP isn't on board.
If the Phanar does, it will loose its Ukrainians.
I'm not so sure. I've been to a couple of Ukrainian churches (UOC of Canada), some quite big, where the prevailing view in the congregation was that the KP is the legitimate church of Ukraine. The priest at one of them went so far as to say "Where is this word 'canonical' in the Bible?"
Right next to the word "Ukraine". 
 

Second Chance

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Mor Ephrem said:
Regnare said:
ialmisry said:
Cyrillic said:
Yurysprudentsiya said:
(Translated by me)
"After the unification of the UOC-KP and UAOC, the single national Ukrainian church will be recognized by the Patriarchate of Constantinople, said Archbishop Yevstratij (Zorya), a spokesman for the UOC-KP, on Ukrainian television station Channel 5, reports UNN."

A bit more (in Ukrainian) here:
http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/orthodox/uoc_kp/60252/
Oy vey. I hope that's not true. At least not if the MP isn't on board.
If the Phanar does, it will loose its Ukrainians.
I'm not so sure. I've been to a couple of Ukrainian churches (UOC of Canada), some quite big, where the prevailing view in the congregation was that the KP is the legitimate church of Ukraine. The priest at one of them went so far as to say "Where is this word 'canonical' in the Bible?"
Right next to the word "Ukraine".
Both "Ukraine" and "canonical" are indicated by the wording of the Great Commission: "...make disciples of all nations..."
 

podkarpatska

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Apparently, a rose by any other name would not smell as  sweet. http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/orthodox_relations/60274/

Hmm... "UAOC Primate Makariy (Maletych) suggests that the announced unification with the Kyiv Patriarchate may fail to occur. The reason is that the UOC-KP, as Metropolitan Makariy claims, does not agree that a combined name of the church shall include the word ‘autocephalous’. The UAOC, in turn, disagrees with the principle of representative delegates to the unification council, whereby theirclergymen will have fewer votes."

Stay tuned. Popcorn shortages may occur.
 

TheTrisagion

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Those sound like stupid reasons to me.
 
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This is the way that everything has historically been run in Ukraine.  There may well be more than just the stated reasons.  Or maybe these reasons are really important.  Or maybe somebody just doesn't want it to happen.  Or maybe somewhere someone is posturing to get a better deal from someone.  Time will tell. 
 

TheTrisagion

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Yurysprudentsiya said:
This is the way that everything has historically been run in Ukraine.  There may well be more than just the stated reasons.  Or maybe these reasons are really important.  Or maybe somebody just doesn't want it to happen.  Or maybe somewhere someone is posturing to get a better deal from someone.  Time will tell.
Sounds to me like they need a fatherly figure to come in and enforce unity. I nominate Putin.  ;)
 

Mor Ephrem

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Regnare said:
I'm not so sure. I've been to a couple of Ukrainian churches (UOC of Canada), some quite big, where the prevailing view in the congregation was that the KP is the legitimate church of Ukraine. The priest at one of them went so far as to say "Where is this word 'canonical' in the Bible?"
Right next to the word "Ukraine".
Both "Ukraine" and "canonical" are indicated by the wording of the Great Commission: "...make disciples of all nations..."
Perhaps, but then the priest in Regnare's post still has a major problem. 
 

mike

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UOC (MP) hierarchs concerned about Constantinople’s activity in Ukraine
https://www.facebook.com/orthodox.christian.news/posts/1756120764614524
 

FatherGiryus

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podkarpatska said:
Apparently, a rose by any other name would not smell as  sweet. http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/confessional/orthodox_relations/60274/

Hmm... "UAOC Primate Makariy (Maletych) suggests that the announced unification with the Kyiv Patriarchate may fail to occur. The reason is that the UOC-KP, as Metropolitan Makariy claims, does not agree that a combined name of the church shall include the word ‘autocephalous’. The UAOC, in turn, disagrees with the principle of representative delegates to the unification council, whereby theirclergymen will have fewer votes."

Stay tuned. Popcorn shortages may occur.
Maybe we can loan them 'Self-Ruled'....    ;D
 
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