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Ultramontanists

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synLeszka

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Stop it, who cares?? Those Poles were for the major part Roman Catholic. It is better that those ultramontanist be destroyed by the armies of Lutheran Germany. After all Roman Catholics are the sons of the antichrist, worse than the Turks, all of them are nazist cooperators, et cetera. After all, the Poles deserved to be annihilated, being Catholics. ;D ;D ;D
Don't cry over ultramontanists.
 

Salpy

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This was split off from here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37174.msg587612.html#msg587612
 

ialmisry

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synLeszka said:
Stop it, who cares?? Those Poles were for the major part Roman Catholic. It is better that those ultramontanist be destroyed by the armies of Lutheran Germany. After all Roman Catholics are the sons of the antichrist, worse than the Turks, all of them are nazist cooperators, et cetera. After all, the Poles deserved to be annihilated, being Catholics. ;D ;D ;D
Don't cry over ultramontanists.
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.
 

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"Sun Tzu said: In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good." -Art of War, 3:1

And for those who don't know what ultramontanism is:

"Ultramontanism is a religious philosophy within the Roman Catholic community that places strong emphasis on the prerogatives and powers of the Pope. In particular, ultramontanism may consist in asserting the superiority of Papal authority over the authority of local temporal or spiritual hierarchies (including the local bishop)." -Wikipedia
 

Deacon Lance

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ialmisry said:
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.
Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.
 

ialmisry

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Deacon Lance said:
ialmisry said:
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.
Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.
He was more than Mussolini, who signed the Treaty giving the Donation of Mussolini, Vatican City.
 

Wandering Sheep

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A few choice quotes from Hitler:

19th October, 1941, night: "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941: "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is  Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

Source: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

I just find it absurd to claim Hitler was Catholic or even religious at all.
 

ialmisry

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elijahmaria said:
Deacon Lance said:
ialmisry said:
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.
Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.
Consider the source  :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonding
That's not a Lutheran church.
 

Deacon Lance

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So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
 

CBGardner

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Wandering Sheep said:
A few choice quotes from Hitler:

19th October, 1941, night: "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."
Its called shining a light in the darkness. That's what happens.
 

ialmisry

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Deacon Lance said:
So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.
 

podkarpatska

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ialmisry said:
elijahmaria said:
Deacon Lance said:
ialmisry said:
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.
Hitler was raised Catholic but became an anti-Catholic neo-pagan occultist.  He was hardly an ultramontanist.
Consider the source  :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonding
That's not a Lutheran church.
Come on, it looks like thousands of Churches across all of the Kaiser's Germanic states and those of Maria Theresa and the Hapsburgs. The Greek Catholic and protestant churches in my grandfather's village in Slovakia resemble that.


You can do better than that with your argument. By the way, you can't judge a book by its cover. Here is the inside....


We can do better than play Hitler was more/less evil than Stalin. Pick one...They are BOTH burning in the fires of hell along with their willing minions and both of them played religion and religious figures who thought they would benefit from alliances with either for the fools they were.

Memory Eternal for all of the men, women and children who died in the Great War. Lord have mercy on us all for still trying to somehow place blame or justify the positions of those who became pawns of the powerful in that war.
 

Schultz

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ialmisry said:
Deacon Lance said:
So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.
I also don't know of any Catholics who are trying to get Hitler canonized.
 

lubeltri

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ialmisry said:
synLeszka said:
Stop it, who cares?? Those Poles were for the major part Roman Catholic. It is better that those ultramontanist be destroyed by the armies of Lutheran Germany. After all Roman Catholics are the sons of the antichrist, worse than the Turks, all of them are nazist cooperators, et cetera. After all, the Poles deserved to be annihilated, being Catholics. ;D ;D ;D
Don't cry over ultramontanists.
Hitler wasn't Lutheran. He was one of your ultramontanists. And his martyr complex resembles yours.
Hitler was a Catholic like Stalin was an Eastern Orthodox. At least Hitler didn't go to seminary like Uncle Joe. Two can play at this game, so you can retire that "Hitler was a Catholic" taunt.
 

ialmisry

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Schultz said:
ialmisry said:
Deacon Lance said:
So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.
I also don't know of any Catholics who are trying to get Hitler canonized.
Not that they are Catholic, or even I would say even RC, but yes, such people do exist.  Same idolatrous impulse as those so called Orthodox you refer to.

Not that that has anything to the do with the point at hand, that Synleszka's assertion Lutheran Germany=Nazi Germany is without foundation.
 

ialmisry

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Papist said:
This conversation is further proof that Izzy is twelve years old.
It is further proof that Ultramontanists have responsibility issues.
 

orthonorm

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This just shows that Austrians are great at PR:

They convinced the world that Hitler was German.
And Beethoven was Austrian.

Oh yeah, and this thread is ridiculous.
 

elijahmaria

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orthonorm said:
This just shows that Austrians are great at PR:

They convinced the world that Hitler was German.
And Beethoven was Austrian.

Oh yeah, and this thread is ridiculous.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Post of the month!
 

Schultz

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ialmisry said:
Schultz said:
ialmisry said:
Deacon Lance said:
So what?  Should I post a picture of Stalin's boyhood church in Gori?
Please do.  I like Georgian architecture.

I don't know of many Orthodox who deny the background of Stalin and the communists, but synleszka (who brought this issue up) cant' bring himself to admit the Ultramontanist roots of Hitler and his Nazis, and so he has to make them Lutherans.
I also don't know of any Catholics who are trying to get Hitler canonized.
Not that they are Catholic, or even I would say even RC, but yes, such people do exist.  Same idolatrous impulse as those so called Orthodox you refer to.

Not that that has anything to the do with the point at hand, that Synleszka's assertion Lutheran Germany=Nazi Germany is without foundation.
I've never seen such a thing and I've spent far more time "getting to know" my enemy (neo-Nazis) than most people.  I would love to see you come up with anything more than isolated individuals unlike the organized groups of people who are trying to get the Russian and/or Georgian Churches to glorify Joseph Stalin.
 

LBK

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unlike the organized groups of people who are trying to get the Russian and/or Georgian Churches to glorify Joseph Stalin.
 

These groups might have a semblance of "organisation", but the chance of their wish coming true is zero. And I find it particularly amusing when Komsomolskaya Pravda has, in recent years, seen it fit to have on its front page a large article lobbying for the canonisation of Josef Stalin. They wouldn't know irony if it bit them on the ....
 

Schultz

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LBK said:
unlike the organized groups of people who are trying to get the Russian and/or Georgian Churches to glorify Joseph Stalin.
 

These groups might have a semblance of "organisation", but the chance of their wish coming true is zero. And I find it particularly amusing when Komsomolskaya Pravda has, in recent years, seen it fit to have on its front page a large article lobbying for the canonisation of Josef Stalin. They wouldn't know irony if it bit them on the ....
Oh, I know they're not going to get their wish this side of the Parousia, so to speak, but it still doesn't change the fact that there are actual groups of people who would love to see St. Joseph of Gori.  My point is that I have never seen such a group of even the most misguided Roman Catholics who are agitating for St. Adolf of Braunau am Inn.
 

biro

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Is it kitten time yet?

 

Salpy

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Wandering Sheep said:
I'm for kitten time. Anyone else? :)
I'm always up for kitten time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw4KVoEVcr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rynvewVe21Y
 

ialmisry

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Wandering Sheep said:
I'm for kitten time. Anyone else? :)

They convinced the world that Hitler was German.
B-b-b-but Hitler had German citizenship!
Bavarian.  The King of Bavaria Ludwig III himself naturalized him. On King Ludwig:
Until 1862, Ludwig's uncle had reigned as King Otto I of Greece. Although Otto had been deposed, Ludwig was still in line of succession to the Greek throne. Had he ever succeeded, this would have required that he renounce his Roman Catholic faith and become Greek Orthodox. Maria Theresa's uncle, Duke Francis V of Modena, was a staunch Roman Catholic. He required that as part of the marriage agreement Ludwig renounce his rights to the throne of Greece, and so ensure that his children would be raised Roman Catholic. In addition, the 1843 Greek Constitution forbade the Greek sovereign to be simultaneously ruler of another country. Consequently, Ludwig's younger brother Leopold technically succeeded upon their father's death to the rights of the deposed Otto I, King of Greece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_III_of_Bavaria
 

ialmisry

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Wandering Sheep said:
Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.  It retained its own diplomatic corps and army (to which the King let Adolf in). At one point, the Kingdom banned the flying of any but the Bavarian flag (i.e. not the Imperial flag).
Wandering Sheep said:
Hitler needed to be a citizen of the Weimar Republic to become Chancellor of it. :\
you sure about that? (he was, but that's not the question).  Venezilos and Met/Abp/EP/Pope Metaxakis weren't Greek subjects when they became PM and Archbishop of Greece.
 

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I haven't been around for long.  So pardon me if I'm jumping to conclusions or being harshly judgmental.  All of which said... this thread is L A M E.  Seriously.  Don't people have better things to do with their time, like count the blades of grass on their lawn?
 

Wandering Sheep

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ialmisry said:
Wandering Sheep said:
Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.  It retained its own diplomatic corps and army (to which the King let Adolf in). At one point, the Kingdom banned the flying of any but the Bavarian flag (i.e. not the Imperial flag).
So it was sort of a Holy Roman Empire deal. Doesn't defeat my point; there was not a Bavaria separate from a German Empire on the map, regardless of how much a confederation instead of a federation it was. The kingdom of Bavaria was made up of ethnic Germans who spoke German and who were part of a greater German political identity.
Wandering Sheep said:
Hitler needed to be a citizen of the Weimar Republic to become Chancellor of it. :\
you sure about that? (he was, but that's not the question).
[/quote]
Everything past this went way over my head.
 

Wandering Sheep

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Ad Orientem said:
I haven't been around for long.  So pardon me if I'm jumping to conclusions or being harshly judgmental.  All of which said... this thread is L A M E.  Seriously.  Don't people have better things to do with their time, like count the blades of grass on their lawn?
You kidding me? I already spend an hour mowing those blades of grass. Why should I give them more satisfaction of splashing them with my blood, sweat and tears by counting the suckers? D:
 

orthonorm

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Sorry, here is our kleines Adoelfl that only an Austrian could love:

 

orthonorm

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Ad Orientem said:
I haven't been around for long.  So pardon me if I'm jumping to conclusions or being harshly judgmental.  All of which said... this thread is L A M E.  Seriously.  Don't people have better things to do with their time, like count the blades of grass on their lawn?
Inside baseball. Go play with the wiffle ball bat, the big red one with the huge sweet spot that Johnny just can't miss with, till you are ready to at least hit from a tee.

Oh yeah, welcome.
 

orthonorm

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ialmisry said:
Wandering Sheep said:
Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.
No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.
 

Wandering Sheep

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orthonorm said:
ialmisry said:
Wandering Sheep said:
Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.
No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'll take it up with a friend of mine who's living in Bayern(Bavaria for you non-Germans) at the moment and see what she has to say about that statement.

EDIT: I'm thinking it's sarcasm. Unless you say otherwise...
 

orthonorm

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Wandering Sheep said:
orthonorm said:
ialmisry said:
Wandering Sheep said:
Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.
No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'll take it up with a friend of mine who's living in Bayern(Bavaria for you non-Germans) at the moment and see what she has to say about that statement.

EDIT: I'm thinking it's sarcasm. Unless you say otherwise...
Does anyone know what sarcasm even means anymore?

You might make a point that is could be slightly ironic.

But it is obviously hyperbole, even if you don't know anything about Bayern. And if you do, you know the hyperbole ain't that hyper.

 

orthonorm

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orthonorm said:
Wandering Sheep said:
orthonorm said:
ialmisry said:
Wandering Sheep said:
Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.
No self-respecting Bavarian would stoop so low as to slander themselves by identifying with Germany, unless they had a cute Austrian to lead them astray.
Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I'll take it up with a friend of mine who's living in Bayern(Bavaria for you non-Germans) at the moment and see what she has to say about that statement.

EDIT: I'm thinking it's sarcasm. Unless you say otherwise...
Does anyone know what sarcasm even means anymore?

You might make a point that is could be slightly ironic.

But it is obviously hyperbole, even if you don't know anything about Bayern. And if you do, you know the hyperbole ain't that hyper.
And it was funny. The whole Austrian, Bayern, Germany . . . oh forget it.

//:=|
 

ialmisry

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Wandering Sheep said:
ialmisry said:
Wandering Sheep said:
Bavarian is German, and was a part of the German Empire.
Not so much.  It retained its own diplomatic corps and army (to which the King let Adolf in). At one point, the Kingdom banned the flying of any but the Bavarian flag (i.e. not the Imperial flag).
So it was sort of a Holy Roman Empire deal. Doesn't defeat my point; there was not a Bavaria separate from a German Empire on the map,
Sort of was: after the war it had the dubious distinction of being the first nation to follow Russia to become a Communist state

Wandering Sheep said:
regardless of how much a confederation instead of a federation it was. The kingdom of Bavaria was made up of ethnic Germans who spoke German and who were part of a greater German political identity.
That makes it different from Austria how?
Wandering Sheep said:
ialmisry said:
Wandering Sheep said:
Hitler needed to be a citizen of the Weimar Republic to become Chancellor of it. :\
you sure about that? (he was, but that's not the question).
Everything past this went way over my head.
Then you can answer what comes before: I don't see any requirement of citizenship in the Weimar Constitution on the office of Reichskanzler.
 
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