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unam sanctam bull, why and till when?

Zelenikovo

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as I can see on the forum there is just one closed thread [1] as if in question is something unimportant or offensive, but think this is one of the crucial differences that schism will ever be resolved altho not the prime issue that lead to it, yet its not at all addressed correctly by theologians anywhere even among Eastern Catholics (in the video of the next footnoted thread here on this forum) [2] so I would like to hear stance from some Catholic Priest or Theologian how this will be resolved!?

from historical perspective I am fan of one conspi theory explanation for the bull (as such in attempt for clarification debated even on historum.com) [3][3] but this is not at all valid argument and it could be taken only as superficial accusation by the theologians in no way leading to any resolving of the differences between east and west nowadays except if vatican acknowledge the case in such manner ... lets say I am just aware that the bull is issued because the need for restoration of order on the west as attempt for definitely resolving the earlier problem of magna'carta with bull, still the same as I can see is big issue how is not invoked as I can understand!?​

only official stance in Orthodoxy for what I've heard is from OC Priest in his reasons why he migrated to Orthodoxy ...



Don't use the "U" word to describe Eastern Catholics. Except when used in certain academic contexts, it is considered pejorative. Pravoslavbob, Section Moderator
 
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The math just doesn't add up and can't get beyond it.
 

Zelenikovo

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The math just doesn't add up and can't get beyond it.
unam sanctum stands on the same vatican supremacy as I am aware, altho as we know first in line from this aspect is Antioch ...
 

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Between V I and V II and its always in language that twists and turns the brain into spasm. Finally one says," Enough! Begone!"
 

Zelenikovo

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@Stinky if You talk about the text in the first 3rd footnote then go on the second one there are links with clear parse ... altho per'se my question is to any Catholic Theologian how "unam sanctam" came to existence and is it still valid!?
 

J Michael

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Between V I and V II and its always in language that twists and turns the brain into spasm. Finally one says," Enough! Begone!"
Yes...there is that!

Even though I remain Catholic, what tends to spew forth from the Vatican is stuff that I mostly ignore. "Unam Sanctum" and and Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus and their ramifications have been problematic for me from the get go. It's ALWAYS bothered me that both the RC and the OC hold pretty much the same position of "outside the Church there is no salvation", each one defining "the Church", however, to suit its own ends.
 

J Michael

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@Stinky if You talk about the text in the first 3rd footnote then go on the second one there are links with clear parse ... altho per'se my question is to any Catholic Theologian how "unam sanctam" came to existence and is it still valid!?
I'm no theologian of any kind but I will answer your last question. Unam Sanctum IS still valid. As far as I'm aware it is one of those "infallible" teachings and as such, if it were no longer valid that would also mean it was not infallibly promulgated and that would throw into question the authority of the Pope who issued it and all popes thereafter. Can't have any of that!!
 

Zelenikovo

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lets this digression stop here so we would not go too offtopic, we could open new thread if needed ...

It's ALWAYS bothered me that both the RC and the OC hold pretty much the same position of "outside the Church there is no salvation", each one defining "the Church", however, to suit its own ends.
the Church here has point i.e. that is almost unimaginable hard for someone to save himself with by his own power i.e. virtues, but usually is used in context of apostasy or false beliefs that selfish pursuing salvation will make any good, as is said one in thousand save his soul in Cave and one in thousand fell apart from Monastery ...

also it was interesting finding when I run to in Elder Kleopa words an point that Our Almighty Lords Loves Us So Much that wants even pagans to be saved but to them will be judged by the consciousness of natural law of good and evil, and like that its question who will be saved, yet Glory To Our Lord ... on other hand elder Cleopa says that those that got the Oath of The Old Testament will be Judged by it, while we as Christians altho can be easily redeemed by Christ if we dont repent and have the Mark Of The Holy Spirit those will be Judged most fiercely! what to say this was utmost joy for me because officially his sayings were first that I've read after The Holy Bible actually just right after my first true Inchurched Life ...
 

PorphyriosK

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I'm no theologian of any kind but I will answer your last question. Unam Sanctum IS still valid. As far as I'm aware it is one of those "infallible" teachings and as such, if it were no longer valid that would also mean it was not infallibly promulgated and that would throw into question the authority of the Pope who issued it and all popes thereafter. Can't have any of that!!
So you acknowledge it's an infallible teaching of your Church, yet you also feel yourself free to ignore it, having suspicions within your own heart that it's not actually correct. Sounds like you are a "Cafeteria Catholic"!
 

J Michael

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So you acknowledge it's an infallible teaching of your Church, yet you also feel yourself free to ignore it, having suspicions within your own heart that it's not actually correct. Sounds like you are a "Cafeteria Catholic"!
I guess I should have qualified my comment in post #7 above, "Even though I remain Catholic, what tends to spew forth from the Vatican is stuff that I mostly ignore." If I could edit it it would read, "Even though I remain Catholic, what tends to spew forth from Rome, mostly post Vatican II, is stuff I try mostly to ignore." And I will freely admit, and have done so even with my priest, that I struggle, sometimes mightily, with a number of Catholic claims and infallible teachings. If that makes me a "Cafeteria Catholic", well...sic fiat. I pray for God's mercy and will continue to do so.
 
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Unam Sanctum and Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus are easily reconcilable between the Orthodox and Catholics.

Here is how you do it:
1. The Church = The Mystical Body of Christ
Which has 4 parts, the Soul (Holy Ghost), the invisible Mind (Jesus Christ), the visible Head (Bishop of Rome) and the Body. And all those believers in the Eucharist (Jesus), who have visibly entered (and stayed) through Baptism within a Church that has been determined to have a valid Eucharist by the Governing Body (that is in union with the Bishop of Rome), are members of the Body of the Mystical Body of Christ.
2. Visible Head -> Has final decision making authority. [A truth you must accept].
3. But you send truth acceptance to the end -> For the mind gives the heart to the King, and all explicit truth will have to be accepted before entering into the Kingdom of Heaven, and the soul must still have Jesus Christ, who is The Way and The Truth and The Life as the King of their soul after all truth is revealed, and by the use of the wording "every human creature" in Unam Sanctam, this is self evident, we are subject to all truth, regardless if it is explicit or not, because by the time you arrive at your personal judgement, all truth will be explicit.
4. And then you put the onus on Jesus to make the final determination -> Jesus Christ, the hypostatic union, who is full of power, as the Rightful King and High Priest has authority and jurisdiction outside time, and inside time, and everywhere in between, and therefore can administer his Body and Blood, or Baptism, with no restrictions or limitations, so potentially one could become a member of the Mystical Body of Christ during the moment before the soul leaves the body, but that would be outside the authority and jurisdiction of the Governing Body of the Mystical Body of Christ.
5. And one last qualifier to make it well know that being inside the Mystical Body of Christ guarantees nothing -> To remain in the Mystical Body and transition through death and into the Kingdom of Heaven, a soul has been directed by its mind to give its heart to Jesus Christ who reigns King of the supernatural land of their soul (the most explicit way Jesus Christ can enter your soul is through the Eucharist and the most essential way Jesus Christ can enter your soul is through Baptism by Water) and that soul lives in unison with the finality of the Glorified Body of Christ, all by the Father drawing us through uncreated grace, and in the meanwhile, in the fallen world that we are, we are given the view from Earth of a Holy Mountain with God at the summit.
6. And the above easily reconciles with the gospels which the Church has had a difficult time with at times.
 

Wyatt

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There have only been two Infallible ex cathedra statements from Popes of our Church: the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception and the Dogma of the Assumption. Unam Sanctum is not on that list.
 

Katechon

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There have only been two Infallible ex cathedra statements from Popes of our Church: the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception and the Dogma of the Assumption.
That's a Trad Myth.
 

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Wyatt

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That's a Trad Myth.
I'm not a trad. If you think it's a myth then whatever. I'm not going to change your mind. Think whatever. 😂
 
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