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JamesRottnek said:
Αριστοκλής said:
^ Now THAT was uncalled for. And I'm not sure it is germane to the thread or even a proper reaction to the intent of Isa's post.
People like Isa cause others to stop seeing, or fail to start seeing, mental health professionals when they definitely need to.  What exactly is the point of Isa's post other than to cast aspersions on the field of mental health?
To be fair, the methods of clinical psychology and psychiatry do present some important questions for Orthodox Christians.

Isa is just wrong about most clinicians not seeing (at least) therapeutic value in religion.
 

mabsoota

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a good priest will send you to your psychiatrist if you have psychiatric problems.
 

augustin717

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Antonis said:
Yearning for days when people go to priests for help.
I know a priest that took my grandma's cousin and her daughter, in his own car, to see a wizard, recognizing his profession's inherent limitations, I guess. He's a decent guy.
 

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augustin717 said:
Antonis said:
Yearning for days when people go to priests for help.
I know a priest that took my grandma's cousin and her daughter, in his own car, to see a wizard, recognizing his profession's inherent limitations, I guess. He's a decent guy.
ROFL
 

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Achronos said:
augustin717 said:
Antonis said:
Yearning for days when people go to priests for help.
I know a priest that took my grandma's cousin and her daughter, in his own car, to see a wizard, recognizing his profession's inherent limitations, I guess. He's a decent guy.
ROFL
Someone else put this in the quotable thread. This is augustin at his best.
 

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augustin717 said:
Antonis said:
Yearning for days when people go to priests for help.
I know a priest that took my grandma's cousin and her daughter, in his own car, to see a wizard, recognizing his profession's inherent limitations, I guess. He's a decent guy.
Don't forget the dog when you're hunting for mandrake root.

Some exchanges are meant to be made by man's best friend.

Also, courtesy of MK's herman page on facebook:

 

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mabsoota said:
a good priest will send you to your psychiatrist if you have psychiatric problems.
Correct. Priests are not psychiatrists, and even the few that are should not be practicing psychotherapy on their spiritual children, for the same reason why a psychiatrist would not do psychotherapy on their children.  Some people have a physical illness of chemical imbalance in the brain, while others have psychological illnesses.  A Psychiatrist handles the former.  Their Priest can give Unction and prayers, but should not be practicing psychotherapy nor giving them drugs, even if he is a psychiatrist. 
 

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Father H said:
mabsoota said:
a good priest will send you to your psychiatrist if you have psychiatric problems.
Correct. Priests are not psychiatrists, and even the few that are should not be practicing psychotherapy on their spiritual children, for the same reason why a psychiatrist would not do psychotherapy on their children.  Some people have a physical illness of chemical imbalance in the brain, while others have psychological illnesses.  A Psychiatrist handles the former.  Their Priest can give Unction and prayers, but should not be practicing psychotherapy nor giving them drugs, even if he is a psychiatrist. 
Amen. If we can put, "if a priest practices psychotherapy on his parishioners, let him be deposed" we could make this a canon for an upcoming local American council.
 

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Shanghaiski said:
Father H said:
mabsoota said:
a good priest will send you to your psychiatrist if you have psychiatric problems.
Correct. Priests are not psychiatrists, and even the few that are should not be practicing psychotherapy on their spiritual children, for the same reason why a psychiatrist would not do psychotherapy on their children.  Some people have a physical illness of chemical imbalance in the brain, while others have psychological illnesses.  A Psychiatrist handles the former.  Their Priest can give Unction and prayers, but should not be practicing psychotherapy nor giving them drugs, even if he is a psychiatrist. 
Amen. If we can put, "if a priest practices psychotherapy on his parishioners, let him be deposed" we could make this a canon for an upcoming local American council.
And 200 years from now when the word is no longer in our vocabulary someone will look at said canon and ask "what is psychotherapy"?  Then some other genius will say, "I think is when priest gives communion to person with mental problems."  Then the parish council can say "good, we finally have reason to get rid of that no good priest"  :laugh:  :'(
 

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Father H said:
Shanghaiski said:
Father H said:
mabsoota said:
a good priest will send you to your psychiatrist if you have psychiatric problems.
Correct. Priests are not psychiatrists, and even the few that are should not be practicing psychotherapy on their spiritual children, for the same reason why a psychiatrist would not do psychotherapy on their children.  Some people have a physical illness of chemical imbalance in the brain, while others have psychological illnesses.  A Psychiatrist handles the former.  Their Priest can give Unction and prayers, but should not be practicing psychotherapy nor giving them drugs, even if he is a psychiatrist. 
Amen. If we can put, "if a priest practices psychotherapy on his parishioners, let him be deposed" we could make this a canon for an upcoming local American council.
And 200 years from now when the word is no longer in our vocabulary someone will look at said canon and ask "what is psychotherapy"?  Then some other genius will say, "I think is when priest gives communion to person with mental problems."  Then the parish council can say "good, we finally have reason to get rid of that no good priest"   :laugh:   :'(
That's only if parishes 200 years from now become dominated by wacky congregationalists that think they can dismiss priests at their leisure...oh, wait.
 

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LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
 

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JamesRottnek said:
ialmisry said:
Schultz said:
JamesRottnek said:
LizaSymonenko said:
I am sooooooo sad.....

This just proves that modern "therapy", quizzes, tests, etc....are all designed to make you doubt your faith....and fit "in" with modern social norms.  
This is just patently false.
Indeed.  My wife's therapist often told her to go back to church more often. 

And he was a Jewish atheist.
A rarity (one seeing value in church-going, that is.  There are a few, but they are outnumbered).
I have seen a master's level therapist, two psychiatrists, two psychiatric nurse practitioners, two licensed clinical social workers involved in group therapy, and something like five behavioral health techs at a psych hospital, in the last year.  Of those twelve mental health professionals, a grand total of zero ever expressed any idea that religion - of any sort - was a bad thing; and I can recall nine of them bringing it up, all in a positive way with regard to those who had an interest in their faith.  You are quite frankly just spewing more random feces as you so often do, with no basis in facts of any kind.  I strongly encourage you to set aside your prejudices for a few minutes every day and actually think about whether or not you have any reason at all to believe the insane things that you do.
Didn't see this before: I worked in the locked unit of a free standing psych hospital for 5 years, and have known a lot of psych professionals and teachers, before and since. I have literally read thousands of case files.  And yes, those who see value in religion, especially beyond just a crutch, are outnumbered.

As for the alleged prejudices-which seem to amount to nothing more than I do not agree with you-I have no problem with anyone availing themselves of psych services, nor using the findings of psychology.
 

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tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
Tweety, from your earlier comments, I gather you are a "cradle" Orthodox, baptized at age 2 you said.  I am glad to hear you "believe" in God, and I hope you take a real interest in getting to know Orthodoxy.  It's the True Church of Christ, and sometimes, we as faithful, simply are asked to believe, without proof.

It is an exercise in humility to admit we don't know how or why things are the way they are, but, we believe them to be true, nonetheless.

I wonder if your parents took you to church as a child, if you were exposed to the Traditions, as well as the traditions (small t).

I think you will find that Orthodoxy is a fascinating and wondrous experience....and stands unrivaled in it's respect for God, and adherence to His laws.

I hope and pray that you take a real interest and begin to examine what Orthodoxy really is....not just the surface, but, the roots.

This forum is a great place to start...however, not everything written here is correct.  I know for certain, that many things I once wrote, I now wish I hadn't because I've matured and realized that I was wrong.  I am still learning.

I wish you all the best and that your journey to discovering your Faith is a joyous and filled with wonderful experiences.

Let us know if we can be of any help.
 

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ialmisry said:
JamesRottnek said:
ialmisry said:
Schultz said:
JamesRottnek said:
LizaSymonenko said:
I am sooooooo sad.....

This just proves that modern "therapy", quizzes, tests, etc....are all designed to make you doubt your faith....and fit "in" with modern social norms.  
This is just patently false.
Indeed.  My wife's therapist often told her to go back to church more often. 

And he was a Jewish atheist.
A rarity (one seeing value in church-going, that is.  There are a few, but they are outnumbered).
I have seen a master's level therapist, two psychiatrists, two psychiatric nurse practitioners, two licensed clinical social workers involved in group therapy, and something like five behavioral health techs at a psych hospital, in the last year.  Of those twelve mental health professionals, a grand total of zero ever expressed any idea that religion - of any sort - was a bad thing; and I can recall nine of them bringing it up, all in a positive way with regard to those who had an interest in their faith.  You are quite frankly just spewing more random feces as you so often do, with no basis in facts of any kind.  I strongly encourage you to set aside your prejudices for a few minutes every day and actually think about whether or not you have any reason at all to believe the insane things that you do.
Didn't see this before: I worked in the locked unit of a free standing psych hospital for 5 years, and have known a lot of psych professionals and teachers, before and since. I have literally read thousands of case files.  And yes, those who see value in religion, especially beyond just a crutch, are outnumbered.

As for the alleged prejudices-which seem to amount to nothing more than I do not agree with you-I have no problem with anyone availing themselves of psych services, nor using the findings of psychology.
And how long ago did you do this?  And where?
 

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A therapist I saw for a few months earlier this year had her Masters degree from Liberty University.  ;D 8)
 

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Asteriktos said:
A therapist I saw for a few months earlier this year had her Masters degree from Liberty University.  ;D 8)
That would be...interesting.
 

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JamesRottnek said:
Asteriktos said:
A therapist I saw for a few months earlier this year had her Masters degree from Liberty University.  ;D 8)
That would be...interesting.
It wasn't at a "Christian Counseling" type place either, just a regular therapist/doctor set up. When she told me about the degree at the first session that's exactly what I thought... oh boy, this is gonna get good. As it turned out she was quite insightful and intelligent.

My current therapist is an atheist, but even she has made positive comments about religion. For example, I was telling her about how the Orthodox remember the dead at certain intervals after their passing, and she really liked that way of helping with the grief process.
 

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Asteriktos said:
JamesRottnek said:
Asteriktos said:
A therapist I saw for a few months earlier this year had her Masters degree from Liberty University.  ;D 8)
That would be...interesting.
It wasn't at a "Christian Counseling" type place either, just a regular therapist/doctor set up. When she told me about the degree at the first session that's exactly what I thought... oh boy, this is gonna get good. As it turned out she was quite insightful and intelligent.

My current therapist is an atheist, but even she has made positive comments about religion. For example, I was telling her about how the Orthodox remember the dead at certain intervals after their passing, and she really liked that way of helping with the grief process.
Interestingly, my Judaism instructor told us a couple of weeks ago about a now-deceased member of the ASU faculty; Rabbi Lee (my instructor) and he were friends, and the man (IIRC) was an atheist Jew more or less.  Anyway, when the man's father died at a relatively young age, Rabbi Lee and the faculty member had a discussion (I believe that day) about the traditional Jewish mourning rites, and the man chose to sit shiva (the seven day mourning ritual-thing for first degree relatives, in Judaism) and afterward extolled its virtues vis-a-vis the grief process.
 

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I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.

 

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LizaSymonenko said:
I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.
I saw therapists on and off for 14 years before I found one that helped much...
 

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LizaSymonenko said:
I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.
And how long has he stuck with any one of them?  And how long has he been seeing a professional at all?  And how committed is he (not his parent(s) nor his therapist/counselor/psychologist) to the process and to changing?
 

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JamesRottnek said:
ialmisry said:
JamesRottnek said:
ialmisry said:
Schultz said:
JamesRottnek said:
LizaSymonenko said:
I am sooooooo sad.....

This just proves that modern "therapy", quizzes, tests, etc....are all designed to make you doubt your faith....and fit "in" with modern social norms.  
This is just patently false.
Indeed.  My wife's therapist often told her to go back to church more often. 

And he was a Jewish atheist.
A rarity (one seeing value in church-going, that is.  There are a few, but they are outnumbered).
I have seen a master's level therapist, two psychiatrists, two psychiatric nurse practitioners, two licensed clinical social workers involved in group therapy, and something like five behavioral health techs at a psych hospital, in the last year.  Of those twelve mental health professionals, a grand total of zero ever expressed any idea that religion - of any sort - was a bad thing; and I can recall nine of them bringing it up, all in a positive way with regard to those who had an interest in their faith.  You are quite frankly just spewing more random feces as you so often do, with no basis in facts of any kind.  I strongly encourage you to set aside your prejudices for a few minutes every day and actually think about whether or not you have any reason at all to believe the insane things that you do.
Didn't see this before: I worked in the locked unit of a free standing psych hospital for 5 years, and have known a lot of psych professionals and teachers, before and since. I have literally read thousands of case files.  And yes, those who see value in religion, especially beyond just a crutch, are outnumbered.

As for the alleged prejudices-which seem to amount to nothing more than I do not agree with you-I have no problem with anyone availing themselves of psych services, nor using the findings of psychology.
And how long ago did you do this?  And where?
Work at the hospital?  Over a decade ago.  Deal with Psychologists/Psychiatrists/Social Workers, personally and professionally, use psychological studies etc...I still do that.  Mostly in Chicago.
 

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Proverbs 25

11 A word fitly spoken
    is like apples of gold in a setting of silver.
12 Like a gold ring or an ornament of gold
    is a wise rebuke to a listening ear.

16 If you have found honey, eat only enough for you,
    or else, having too much, you will vomit it.


19 Like a bad tooth or a lame foot
    is trust in a faithless person in time of trouble.
20 Like vinegar on a wound
    is one who sings songs to a heavy heart.
21 Like a moth in clothing or a worm in wood,
    sorrow gnaws at the human heart.

26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain
    are the righteous who give way before the wicked.
27 It is not good to eat much honey,
    or to seek honour on top of honour.
28 Like a city breached, without walls,
    is one who lacks self-control.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Do we really need to start that soap opera again?
Which soap opera would 'that' be exactly?

Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a thread, they can lock it, can't they?

Otherwise, Solomon's advice holds good for soap, as well as honey.  ;D
 

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Romaios said:
Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a tread, they can lock it, can't they?
We can't lock threads because we do not like them.
 

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Michał Kalina said:
Romaios said:
Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a tread, they can lock it, can't they?
We can't lock threads because we do not like them.


That's just too bad!  :D
 

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They already do thread closures. Mods will lock a thread and say "Locked pending review" or something, and then never reopen it  ;)
 

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Look, I'm sorry!  :'(

I only posted because somewhere there was talk of honey as an analogy for objective truth, independent of our brain processes. This reminded me of Proverbs 25, which is one of my favourite 'Scripture-remedies' - it seemed to fit the context. As it turns out, it wasn't "a word fitly spoken"...

In all honesty, it didn't occur to me that I was resurrecting a 'soap opera'...    
 

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trevor72694 said:
Are we all still posting in this, as well?!  Oy!
Vavoy!

We all had better not. The business of exposing one's wounds on a forum might attract Job's comforters (like myself) and is bound to degenerate into soap-opera.

"If the cause of the sin is secret, let him disclose it to the Abbot alone, or to his spiritual Superiors, who know how to heal their own wounds and those of others, and not expose and make them public." (Rule of St. Benedict, Chapter 46) 
 

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Hi, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since you all are so keen on discussing the subject matter in this thread, I'll just say that my relationship with God is changing.  I am believing differently than I used to.  My level of zeal went up really high, down really low, and now it seems to be balancing out.

I'm not obligated to update you all on my spiritual journey.  That is between God, my priest and I.  You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate. 

Christ's love to you all,

Trevor
 

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trevor72694 said:
Hi, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since you all are so keen on discussing the subject matter in this thread, I'll just say that my relationship with God is changing.  I am believing differently than I used to.  My level of zeal went up really high, down really low, and now it seems to be balancing out.

I'm not obligated to update you all on my spiritual journey.  That is between God, my priest and I.  You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate. 

Christ's love to you all,

Trevor
Sehr gut.
 

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Certainly way more mature than when you were worrying how to bake prosphora. Keep up ;)
 
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