Update on trevor72694

orthonorm

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trevor72694 said:
That is between God, my priest and I.
Sorry for removing that gay color.

This is a great English test for the fellow marms.

How many errors are in the above quote? What are they? And why? (I am officially tossing out one of the traditional criticisms which could used here.)
 

OrthoNoob

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@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."
 

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OrthoNoob said:
@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."
"Between" would also be appropriate, perhaps even more appropriate, since "among" implies a vaguer relationship among the three, whereas "between" implies explict, distinct relations between God and believer, between God and priest, and between believer and priest.
 

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orthonorm said:
trevor72694 said:
That is between God, my priest and I.
Sorry for removing that gay color.

This is a great English test for the fellow marms.

How many errors are in the above quote? What are they? And why? (I am officially tossing out one of the traditional criticisms which could used here.)
Master, such a gem from you.
 

Marc1152

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tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
 

JamesRottnek

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Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
No.  Because then you must calculate the odds of an all-powerful being with no beginning, existing.
 

orthonorm

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Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?
 

JamesR

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God-of-the-Gaps Fallacy? Possibly either the Gambler's Fallacy or Inverse Gamber's Fallacy as well--I get the two mixed up.
 

Second Chance

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orthonorm said:
Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?
This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.
 

orthonorm

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
orthonorm said:
Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?
This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.
It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.
 

JamesR

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My problem with the whole thing about order and randomness in regards to the God debate is how exactly do we define "order" and "disorder"? Those are manmade constructs to describe the natural way things are. In reality, one could argue that there is NOTHING unique about the way our universe is because it could have just as easily been entirely different--all the laws of nature, logic and everything as we know it could have just as easily been different. It's like throwing out a deck of cards, pulling a random card out and having it be an Ace. In reality, there is nothing special about it--it was an equal chance that it could have been any of the cards in the deck. The uniqueness to the card is merely the result of the MANMADE value we ascribe to the Ace--but in reality it could have just as easily been a 6 or a Jack etc. I imagine one could argue that the universe is the same way.
 

Second Chance

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orthonorm said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
orthonorm said:
Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?
This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.
It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.
By the word "actually," are you claiming superior knowledge and reasoning abilities?
 

Marc1152

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JamesRottnek said:
Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
No.  Because then you must calculate the odds of an all-powerful being with no beginning, existing.
Yes, Because we just calculated the odds of life arising randomly and it appears to be impossible.. Therefore, it was not random chance but rather by purposeful design.
 

Marc1152

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
orthonorm said:
Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?
This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.
Right. It strongly implies the existence of God in a way that is hard to refute.

"Prove" you exist..  :)
 

orthonorm

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
orthonorm said:
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
orthonorm said:
Marc1152 said:
tweety234 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

???

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.
We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?
This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.
It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.
By the word "actually," are you claiming superior knowledge and reasoning abilities?
In this case, yes. Because I see how ridiculous this is and how it rests on faulty reasoning, while others here think whatever in the video has merit.

What's really amazing, I haven't even watched the thing.
 

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OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.
 

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Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
 

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Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
 

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Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. 8)
 

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Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. 8)
OK, I'll pick, then. The most amazing possibility.
 

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Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.
What if there are 50,000 events all with odds of a trillion to one that need to occur in a very particular sequence? And the result has great purpose ( Life for example).

The odds are so astronomical that this can happen by mere random chance that a reasonable conclusion is that there is a divine hand involved.
 

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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.
In other words it shows that the argument for random development is inductively weak, correct?
 

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Marc1152 said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.
What if there are 50,000 events all with odds of a trillion to one that need to occur in a very particular sequence? And the result has great purpose ( Life for example).

The odds are so astronomical that this can happen by mere random chance that a reasonable conclusion is that there is a divine hand involved.
Then it's the same as what I said before, with bigger numbers. Except that you're now interjecting purposes, which doesn't necessarily change anything.
 

Marc1152

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Rufus said:
Marc1152 said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.
What if there are 50,000 events all with odds of a trillion to one that need to occur in a very particular sequence? And the result has great purpose ( Life for example).

The odds are so astronomical that this can happen by mere random chance that a reasonable conclusion is that there is a divine hand involved.
Then it's the same as what I said before, with bigger numbers. Except that you're now interjecting purposes, which doesn't necessarily change anything.
Well.... Really big numbers is what makes the case. Something that can occur with a 50/50 chance can easily happen randomly. A long series of events that must take place in a narrow sequence that all have a 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 chance of occurring, is a horse of a different color.

 

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Marc1152 said:
Rufus said:
Marc1152 said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.
What if there are 50,000 events all with odds of a trillion to one that need to occur in a very particular sequence? And the result has great purpose ( Life for example).

The odds are so astronomical that this can happen by mere random chance that a reasonable conclusion is that there is a divine hand involved.
Then it's the same as what I said before, with bigger numbers. Except that you're now interjecting purposes, which doesn't necessarily change anything.
Well.... Really big numbers is what makes the case. Something that can occur with a 50/50 chance can easily happen randomly. A long series of events that must take place in a narrow sequence that all have a 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 chance of occurring, is a horse of a different color.
Then you don't understand the argument. The numbers don't matter.

You need to refine your argument. Jetavan may or may not have been on to something, but he seems to have disappeared.

btw, if wizards were real, would that increase the chances of God existing?
 

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Rufus said:
Marc1152 said:
Rufus said:
Marc1152 said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.
What if there are 50,000 events all with odds of a trillion to one that need to occur in a very particular sequence? And the result has great purpose ( Life for example).

The odds are so astronomical that this can happen by mere random chance that a reasonable conclusion is that there is a divine hand involved.
Then it's the same as what I said before, with bigger numbers. Except that you're now interjecting purposes, which doesn't necessarily change anything.
Well.... Really big numbers is what makes the case. Something that can occur with a 50/50 chance can easily happen randomly. A long series of events that must take place in a narrow sequence that all have a 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 chance of occurring, is a horse of a different color.
Then you don't understand the argument. The numbers don't matter.

You need to refine your argument. Jetavan may or may not have been on to something, but he seems to have disappeared.

btw, if wizards were real, would that increase the chances of God existing?
I don't know, but it would be neat.
 

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trevor72694 said:
Hi, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since you all are so keen on discussing the subject matter in this thread, I'll just say that my relationship with God is changing.  I am believing differently than I used to.  My level of zeal went up really high, down really low, and now it seems to be balancing out.

I'm not obligated to update you all on my spiritual journey.  That is between God, my priest and I.  You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate. 

Christ's love to you all,

Trevor
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glorify to Him forever!

Christ is born!
Glorify Him.
 

Jetavan

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Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. 8)
OK, I'll pick, then. The most amazing possibility.
Are you saying, then, that at each moment in time, out of billions of possibilities, the most amazing possibility happens?
 

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Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. 8)
OK, I'll pick, then. The most amazing possibility.
Are you saying, then, that at each moment in time, out of billions of possibilities, the most amazing possibility happens?
Yes. I picked the most amazing possibility.

Let's cut to the chase.

Would you say that life is the most amazing possibility?
 

Jetavan

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Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. 8)
OK, I'll pick, then. The most amazing possibility.
Are you saying, then, that at each moment in time, out of billions of possibilities, the most amazing possibility happens?
Yes. I picked the most amazing possibility.

Let's cut to the chase.

Would you say that life is the most amazing possibility?
If the dinosaurs had survived in all of their glory up to today, then I would consider that possibility more amazing than the current state of affairs.
 

Rufus

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Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
Jetavan said:
Rufus said:
OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. 8)
OK, I'll pick, then. The most amazing possibility.
Are you saying, then, that at each moment in time, out of billions of possibilities, the most amazing possibility happens?
Yes. I picked the most amazing possibility.

Let's cut to the chase.

Would you say that life is the most amazing possibility?
If the dinosaurs had survived in all of their glory up to today, then I would consider that possibility more amazing than the current state of affairs.
OK. As I said before: wizards.

So what are you working towards? ???
 

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Mind is not Material

1, If mind was the brain or any material there would be no free will, as if your decisions, actions, plans, and all cognitive functions depended on mindless matter than you'd have no free will at all so it's,

1, No Director(Mind)

2, Material Director, which is basically 1, No Director, as flucuations of material(plural too, thousands of cells) has no director

3, Immaterial director where you can freely choose to do as you please, since we do have free will and can do as we please, Option 3 is the only choice.

2, Color is not material, even blind can see(black is something)

3, See the text on this screen, Physically, what is it? Just energy on the screen, there isn't anything physical about Information/Data

4, Thoughts are not material

5, Scientific Fact, Every cell in your body dies and regenerates(like skin), that by every 7 years, you are a brand new material being, however you are the same exact person, how can that be if you are material?

It would be an impossibility, you are the same person yet are completely materially new, so Factually there is a property to you(The mind) that isn't material.

when you talk to someone, are you talking to flesh or a person? Talking to God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) is like talking to anyone else.

Also here is something mind blowing,

1, Factually you are not your hands or nerves in them(we could chop off your hand you won't feel the hand or the nerves in them again, you'd still exist)

2, if mind is brain(that is material), then it would be impossible to feel my hand.

If pain is caused by brain signals hitting the hand then I won't feel it as I am not my hand.

If pain is caused by hand signals going to the brain I would feel the pain in my brain.

Now, hit your hand, where did you feel it? in your hand correct?

There you go, you are an Immaterial being, as if you were your brain or any material, you would be incapable of feeling your hand. you feel your hand, yet you aren't your hand and no properties of your hand are you, there is therefore an immaterial part of you(basically, just you) that causes you to feel your hand.

Have no fear, Theology and The Bible is here, you'll never lose your faith.
 

biro

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I know this is Free for All, but what did that have to do with anything?
 

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Oh good. I was getting bored with the discussion, but now people have something new to talk about.
 
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