• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Vassula Ryden Excommunicated

Irish Hermit

Merarches
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
10,980
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Middle Earth
filipinopilgrim said:
Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs
despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches)
,


Hardly timid.  Several years back her case was examined in Athens and the Greek Church stated she was excommunicated.  She then initiated a court case against the Greek Church but it was abandoned.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
130
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Irish Hermit said:
filipinopilgrim said:
Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs
despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches)
,


Hardly timid.  Several years back her case was examined in Athens and the Greek Church stated she was excommunicated.  She then initiated a court case against the Greek Church but it was abandoned.


I changed the post to remove "timid" even before I saw your response. However, if you look through Vassula's website, you'll note that her relations with the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria remain cordial... too cordial for comfort.

 

Irish Hermit

Merarches
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
10,980
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Middle Earth
filipinopilgrim said:
I changed the post to remove "timid" even before I saw your response. However, if you look through Vassula's website, you'll note that her relations with the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria remain cordial... too cordial for comfort.
I adore Mrs Ryden!

1. She and her locutions and her magic writings had the approval of Catholic bishops at the time when she had abandoned her first husband and was living in a long-term relationship with her lover (now her second husband.)   *Anybody* who can gain the approval of her visions by the Catholic hierarchy as legitimate when she was living in mortal sin has to be special!!  Just shows how wrong we have all been to think that sexual purity is a prerequisite to being a good Christian, and certainly for being chosen by Jesus as His voice in the world.

2.  Most of all, I adore her for the locution from Jesus which she revealed on her Russian tour, that He had revealed that the Patriarch of Moscow would assume control of the united Universal Church, displacing the Pope of Rome.

I vote to canonise her before she dies!  
 

Irish Hermit

Merarches
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
10,980
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Middle Earth
The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Greek Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"

http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
130
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Irish Hermit said:
The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Greek Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"

http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm
Somebody ought to tell Patriarch Theodore II of Alexandria.

See this: http://www.tlig.org/en/spirituality/pilgrimages/egypt2008/

See also this quote from the report in the abovementioned link:

At night, in the Church of the Annunciation, we attended the magnificent Easter celebration, receiving Holy Communion and the Holy Light of the Resurrection from His Beatitude the Patriarch. Just before midnight, all the lights of the church were switched off and at precisely midnight His Beatitude chanted the hymn "Here, receive the Light". We were all impressed with the openness of his Beatitude when it came to Holy Communion from the first day, because he never made any distinction between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics but gave the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ to us all. Praise be to the Lord and all glory to Him. Amen.
 

Irish Hermit

Merarches
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
10,980
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Middle Earth
I think that Ryden is deluded (in a state of plani-prelest) and in need of spiritual and psychiatric assistance.  The revelation from Jesus in Russia proves that.  The belief that the revelations and magic writings continued during the years when she was openly living in adultery prove it.

Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.
 

danman916

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Irish Hermit said:
1. She and her locutions and her magic writings had the approval of Catholic bishops at the time when she had abandoned her first husband and was living in a long-term relationship with her lover (now her second husband.)   *Anybody* who can gain the approval of her visions by the Catholic hierarchy as legitimate when she was living in mortal sin has to be special!!  Just shows how wrong we have all been to think that sexual purity is a prerequisite to being a good Christian, and certainly for being chosen by Jesus as His voice in the world.
Can you cite evidence of the Catholic Bishops approving of her locutions and writings?
 

John Larocque

High Elder
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
529
Reaction score
0
Points
16
The CDF doctrinal judgment from 1997 against her works (headed by Cardinal Ratzinger) remain in force. Cardinal Levada iterated that it was inappriate for Catholics to take part in her prayer groups.

This is a different kind of ecumenism: a list of EO and RCC condemnations of Vassoula. Interestingly enough, the CDF in 1995 noted her intercommunion as an irritant.

http://www.infovassula.ch/dermine.htm

Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs. Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter.
There seems to be no end to her mischief, although she seems to be doing a fairly good job smoking out the ecumenists.

The webmaster of Rorate Caeli offered this comment to the Vassoula-inspired ecumenism.

The unity that counts, the unity that will actually last, the unity that will not contribute towards even greater disunity, is unity of faith. Events like this do not cause unity -- this and similar events only cause greater scandal, and therefore greater disunity. To protest this scandal is not to promote disunity but precisely to defend the meaning of true unity.

I find it very interesting that the proponents of false unity want to move us towards unity by disregarding precisely one of the principles upon which Catholicism and Orthodoxy are united, namely, that intercommunion can come only after agreement on doctrine. Since when did unity come by creating disunity over yet another principle?

<snip>

Those who acknowledge the obvious fact that Catholics and Orthodox do not agree on essential matters, and therefore can neither concelebrate nor routinely receive Communion at each other's liturgies, are condemned as apostles of disunity, ridiculed as upholders of outdated polemics, and are threatened with divine judgement for "prolonging the causes of division" and "doing the devil's work"! It is as if to acknowledge a sad reality is to be guilty of it and to celebrate the fact -- an absurd notion, as anyone can see.

No, we acknowledge that there is division between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, a division wide enough to prevent meaningful concelebration or intercommunion, because we cannot compromise over the truth, and not because we rejoice over division or would like it to continue. To disregard doctrine makes communion quite pointless, don't you think?
Fr. Ambrose offered a translation of a Greek church excommunication on the CA board in 2007.
 

danman916

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Points
0
John Larocque said:
The CDF doctrinal judgment from 1997 against her works (headed by Cardinal Ratzinger) remain in force. Cardinal Levada iterated that it was inappriate for Catholics to take part in her prayer groups.
So these are in force, yet Father Ambrose says that Catholic Bishops approve of her locutions and writings?

I will be interested to see whether or not Father Ambrose can demonstrate any proof for his claim.
 

John Larocque

High Elder
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
529
Reaction score
0
Points
16
She has her followers and supporters within the clergy. Fr. Rene Laurentin is an apologist for both this apparition and that of the Medjugorje phenomenon. Are these supporters following the CDF? Absolutley not. Even just a few months ago, Cardinal Schoenborn got in a bit of trouble for appearing to approve Medjugorje by citing positive things that have occurred there. (Cardinal Ratzinger was not widely seen as friendly to it).

Here's a small list of supporters of Vassula.

http://unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Vassula.html

Why do we say "Thank God for Vassula"? Look at who promoted her: Father Ken Roberts, of EWTN, Dr. Rosalle Turton, the 101 Foundation, Mr. John Haffert, former head of the Blue Army and major promoter of Garabandal, Father Rene Laurentin, so-called Marian Theologian, "Mary’s People", a branch of The National Catholic Register, The Daughters of St. Paul Book Stores, The Marian Centers of Medjugorje; Father Michael O’Carroll, (former teacher at Notre Dame and involved in the Charismatic Movement); The Riehle Foundation, (promoters of "The Final Hour"); Michael H. Brown, (author of "The Final Hour" and "The Day Will Come"); and others. These organizations and people pass themselves off as experts in discernment and apparitions. The fact that they were fooled by such a poor mystic is proof that they are not.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
130
Reaction score
0
Points
0
John Larocque said:
She has her followers and supporters within the clergy. Fr. Rene Laurentin is an apologist for both this apparition and that of the Medjugorje phenomenon. Are these supporters following the CDF? Absolutley not. Even just a few months ago, Cardinal Schoenborn got in a bit of trouble for appearing to approve Medjugorje by citing positive things that have occurred there. (Cardinal Ratzinger was not widely seen as friendly to it).

Here's a small list of supporters of Vassula.

http://unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Vassula.html

Why do we say "Thank God for Vassula"? Look at who promoted her: Father Ken Roberts, of EWTN, Dr. Rosalle Turton, the 101 Foundation, Mr. John Haffert, former head of the Blue Army and major promoter of Garabandal, Father Rene Laurentin, so-called Marian Theologian, "Mary’s People", a branch of The National Catholic Register, The Daughters of St. Paul Book Stores, The Marian Centers of Medjugorje; Father Michael O’Carroll, (former teacher at Notre Dame and involved in the Charismatic Movement); The Riehle Foundation, (promoters of "The Final Hour"); Michael H. Brown, (author of "The Final Hour" and "The Day Will Come"); and others. These organizations and people pass themselves off as experts in discernment and apparitions. The fact that they were fooled by such a poor mystic is proof that they are not.


The fact that so many top Catholic theologians and lay leaders are easily fooled by paranormal phenomena that would have been denounced out of hand by any Catholic priest prior to Vatican II, and by anyone really familiar with Catholic ascetical and mystical theology, just goes to show how so many Catholics are ignorant of their own tradition.

There are quite a number of Asian prelates who openly support Vassula, such as Archbishop Ramon Arguelles of Lipa, Philippines and Telesphore Cardinal Toppo of Ranchi, India. They fit into a tendency that first appeared in the 1970's, and which was strengthened in the reign of Pope John Paul II, whose own attitude towards apparitions tended to the very soft side, and during whose reign it was impolitic to appear to be "not Marian enough" -- I speak of the tendency of far too many Catholic bishops and theologians to support all sorts of reported visions and private revelations. Furthermore, the "Marian movement" in the Catholic Church provided (and still provides) significant support for the Vatican's positions of moral matters, and really, during the 1980's and 1990's, in Catholicism, as long as one supported the Pope's teachings on moral matters one was considered "orthodox"".

 

Alveus Lacuna

Taxiarches
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
26
Points
38
Location
Missouri, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
OCA
Irish Hermit said:
Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.
I actually saw a video of this with my own eyes. He clearly communes not only laypeople, which in a cathedral is excusable because of the number of people present. He can't interview everybody! But he communes Roman Catholic priests and monks, which are very distinguishable by their attire.
 

Salpy

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
14,501
Reaction score
18
Points
38
A thread about Vassula and her followers being communed by His Beatitude can be found here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24729.0.html#lastPost

 

stanley123

Protokentarchos
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
3,817
Reaction score
2
Points
38
Faith
Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction
USA
filipinopilgrim said:
The "many" here pertains primarily to the Catholic clergy and bishops. Yes, Vassula counts quite a number of supporters from among them...
Perhaps you have not read: NOTIFICATION ON VASSULA RYDEN (6 October 1995)
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith :
" Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas."
http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrydn1.htm
 

John Larocque

High Elder
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
529
Reaction score
0
Points
16
filipinopilgrim said:
There are quite a number of Asian prelates who openly support Vassula, such as Archbishop Ramon Arguelles of Lipa, Philippines and Telesphore Cardinal Toppo of Ranchi, India. They fit into a tendency that first appeared in the 1970's, and which was strengthened in the reign of Pope John Paul II, whose own attitude towards apparitions tended to the very soft side, and during whose reign it was impolitic to appear to be "not Marian enough" -- I speak of the tendency of far too many Catholic bishops and theologians to support all sorts of reported visions and private revelations. Furthermore, the "Marian movement" in the Catholic Church provided (and still provides) significant support for the Vatican's positions of moral matters, and really, during the 1980's and 1990's, in Catholicism, as long as one supported the Pope's teachings on moral matters one was considered "orthodox"".
I was intimately familiar with some of the ultra-conservative apparitions. Oddly enough, even though the apparitions were themselves false, I still believe that the fundamental premise of a few of them are is correct. The "remnant" mentality of the ultra-traditionalists and condemned sites like Bayside... and St. Justin Popovic! - adhere to a common premise, that the Roman Catholic church fell from a very great height. The sedevacantists go too far, given what they claim to believe, and the SSPX are holding on to an untenable position (in communion with the "fallen" organization), yet in some ways they are a reminder of how far the Latin church has fallen.
 

Salpy

Hoplitarches
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
14,501
Reaction score
18
Points
38
filipinopilgrim said:
Irish Hermit said:
The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Greek Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"

http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm
Somebody ought to tell Patriarch Theodore II of Alexandria.

See this: http://www.tlig.org/en/spirituality/pilgrimages/egypt2008/

See also this quote from the report in the abovementioned link:

At night, in the Church of the Annunciation, we attended the magnificent Easter celebration, receiving Holy Communion and the Holy Light of the Resurrection from His Beatitude the Patriarch. Just before midnight, all the lights of the church were switched off and at precisely midnight His Beatitude chanted the hymn "Here, receive the Light". We were all impressed with the openness of his Beatitude when it came to Holy Communion from the first day, because he never made any distinction between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics but gave the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ to us all. Praise be to the Lord and all glory to Him. Amen.
I would take with a grain of salt anything you read in the tlig website, or any other report put out by Vassula's followers.  One of the characteristics of her group is that they are very aggressive in seeking out endorsements of Vassula and her messages, to the point of twisting the truth and saying someone has endorsed her when they have not.  This has been discussed in other threads about her.  You can find them by clicking on the Vassula tag below.

I have no doubt that Vassula and her group went as pilgrims to Alexandria, took communion, and were received by His Beatitude.  However, I would imagine that His Beatitude communes and meets with groups of pilgrims all the time.  I'm sure he gets his picture taken with hundreds of pilgrims every year.  The fact that Vassula did this does not necessarily mean that His Beatitude supports her or endorses her messages.  He probably had no idea who she was.
 

John Larocque

High Elder
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
529
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Maria wrote of her experiences with the Vassula cult to professional apparition-debunker Rick Salbato. Vassula even spoke at the World Council of Churches! There's no date on the emails but they may have preceded Maria's decision to start her own information site on Vassula.

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/VassulaEmails.html

Check out the Triadology of Vassula:

http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false13.htm

February 17, 1987: “Vassula why, why were you avoiding calling Me Father? Vassula I love being called Father. I am Father of all humanity.”
Filioque! (couldn't resist)

The website author offered these insights:

Although she claims to be married to Jesus, she refers to him as 'Father' and he supposedly calls her 'daughter.' The messages also call the Spirit the Bridegroom, whereas Christ is considered the Bridegroom of his Spouse the Church. But these messages replace the Church with Vassula as Christ's Bride.

The use of the term 'Captor' to refer to Christ's relationship with anyone is contrary to all that the Church teaches. God gave us freewill to such an extent that we can even choose serious sin and choose, in effect, Hellfire. Christ is the Captor of no one. He gives grace freely and he does not control anyone, even those closest to Him.

The claim that she is Christ's altar exalts her above the Virgin Mary and above the rest of humanity. Such self-exalting claims are characteristic of false private revelation.
 

danman916

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Points
0
filipinopilgrim said:
 

The fact that so many top Catholic theologians and lay leaders are easily fooled by paranormal phenomena that would have been denounced out of hand by any Catholic priest prior to Vatican II, and by anyone really familiar with Catholic ascetical and mystical theology, just goes to show how so many Catholics are ignorant of their own tradition.

Oh, Puleez. This is nothing more than polemics again.
Geez.


 

danman916

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Still waiting to see if Irish Hermit can demonstrate any proof for his claim in reply #5:

her locutions and her magic writings had the approval of Catholic bishops at the time when she had abandoned her first husband and was living in a long-term relationship with her lover (now her second husband.)  *Anybody* who can gain the approval of her visions by the Catholic hierarchy as legitimate when she was living in mortal sin has to be special!!  Just shows how wrong we have all been to think that sexual purity is a prerequisite to being a good Christian, and certainly for being chosen by Jesus as His voice in the world.

 

Irish Hermit

Merarches
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
10,980
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Middle Earth
Years ago we discussed these matters on CAF but I never thought them important enough to archive.  However I see that Ryden has some of the testimonials on her website.

Cardinal Franjo Kuharic
Archbishop of Zagreb
February 1995

Vassula travels the world evangelizing for Christian unity; obedience to the Pope; veneration of the Eucharist; devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus; and especially, a Gospel morality of life; as well as for deep religious conversion of the world. Vassula Ryden has met with the Pope, with cardinals and with bishops around the world. This is a matter of private revelation and we allow her to speak because what she says conforms to Gospel truth.

--

His Eminence, Wildrid Cardinal Napier of the the Archdiocese of Durban, South Africa

It is therefore reasonable to state categorically that as far as the Church is concerned Vassula poses no threat to the Catholic Faith whatsoever. Indeed the messages which are communicated through her are consistent with the Church’s own call to repentance and a return to the basics of the faith, in particular the basic prayers such as the Rosary and other devotions once so common in the Catholic family and parish spiritual life.

--
Cardinal Telesphore P. Toppo
Archbishop of Ranchi

Cardinal Toppo introduced Vassula when she came to speak in his Diocese back in Novermber of 2004. Below is an excerpt from his speech:

"The surprising thing is that Vassula did not have any catechetical instruction, leave alone theological training what so-ever and yet her charismatic teaching seems to be in conformity to Scripture, Tradition and the writings of Scholars and Saints... "

etc., etc.

http://www.tlig.org/en/testimonies/churchpos/sfeirwelcome/
 

danman916

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Points
0
and none of those was an "approval" of her "locutions and magic writings". You're stetching the poinit to try to fit a round peg into a square hole to smear Catholicism again.

In the link that you provided on your later post, i found the following:

http://www.infovassula.ch/tligchurchposition.htm

3)      Finally, it remains inappropriate for Catholics to take part in prayer groups established by Mrs Rydén. Concerning the question of ecumenical meetings, the faithful are to follow the norms of the Ecumenical Directory, of the Code of Canon Law (canons: 215; 223 §2 and 383 §3) and of Diocesan Ordinaries.

It is hardly "Bishop's approval" when the prefect of the CFD, Cardinal Levada, is stating this, as it has much more authority than the quotes you provided.

 

Irish Hermit

Merarches
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
10,980
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Middle Earth
danman916 said:
and none of those was an "approval" of her "locutions and magic writings". You're stetching the poinit to try to fit a round peg into a square hole.
If you say so!  A few years ago she almost made it to New Zealand under the aegis of a combined effort of the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches.  We had enquiries from them if we would like to participate.  I said that it was unlikely and recommended that they contact the local Greek Orthodox Church authoritties. They, in their turn, recommended a call to the American Greek Archbishop's offices.  And they were then informed she is excommunicated and Orthodox should not be participating.  I heard nothing after that.
 

Irish Hermit

Merarches
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
10,980
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Middle Earth
danman916 said:
and none of those was an "approval" of her "locutions and magic writings". You're stetching the poinit to try to fit a round peg into a square hole to smear Catholicism again.

In the link that you provided on your later post, i found the following:

http://www.infovassula.ch/tligchurchposition.htm

3)      Finally, it remains inappropriate for Catholics to take part in prayer groups established by Mrs Rydén. Concerning the question of ecumenical meetings, the faithful are to follow the norms of the Ecumenical Directory, of the Code of Canon Law (canons: 215; 223 §2 and 383 §3) and of Diocesan Ordinaries.

It is hardly "Bishop's approval" when the prefect of the CFD, Cardinal Levada, is stating this, as it has much more authority than the quotes you provided.
There has simply been a lot of confusion among the Catholic hierarchy about this woman.
 

Paisius

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
45
Location
Florida
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Depends on the mood
danman916 said:
So these are in force, yet Father Ambrose says that Catholic Bishops approve of her locutions and writings?

I will be interested to see whether or not Father Ambrose can demonstrate any proof for his claim.

There are a lot of bishops in the Catholic Church; it's inevitable that you're going to find one approving wacky things from time to time. Considering that bishops have approved clown masses I'm not sure why you find the idea that a couple of them approved of Vassula Ryden so hard to believe.



 

stanley123

Protokentarchos
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
3,817
Reaction score
2
Points
38
Faith
Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction
USA
filipinopilgrim said:
Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches), enthusiastically relates in the latest report on her website that as part of her Mission in Romania on May 2010, a Romanian Orthodox priest invited a Roman Catholic priest to concelebrate the Divine Liturgy of Pentecost.

Full text of blog post can be read here:  http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2010/09/romanian-orthodox-and-roman-catholic.html



Excerpt of blog post added to post to enforce rule against naked links.  -PtA
Was this concelebration with an Eastern Orthodox priest or with an Oriental Orthodox priest?
 

augustin717

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
7,110
Reaction score
191
Points
63
Faith
Higher Criticism
Jurisdiction
Dutch
How many Orientals are there in Romania?
A handful of Armenians.
 

Orest

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,567
Reaction score
1
Points
36
augustin717 said:
How many Orientals are there in Romania?
A handful of Armenians.
True now there are just a handful of Aremnians left in present day Romania, but when Moldovia was part of Turkey the Aremnians played an important role in business - importing goods.  Even when Bukovyna was part of the Austrian Empire after 1775.  Suchava was once a significant city before the capital of Bukovyna was moved to Chernivsti by the Austrians.  Both cities had a population of Armenians with their own richly deocorated churches and of course schools right up until WW1.
 

Paisius

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
45
Location
Florida
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Depends on the mood
stanley123 said:
Was this concelebration with an Eastern Orthodox priest or with an Oriental Orthodox priest?
If the pictures on the blog are of the event then it was an Eastern Orthodox priest.


In Christ
Joe
 

ialmisry

Strategos
Warned
Post Moderated
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
41,983
Reaction score
196
Points
63
Location
Chicago
Orest said:
augustin717 said:
How many Orientals are there in Romania?
A handful of Armenians.
True now there are just a handful of Aremnians left in present day Romania, but when Moldovia was part of Turkey the Aremnians played an important role in business - importing goods.  Even when Bukovyna was part of the Austrian Empire after 1775.  Suchava was once a significant city before the capital of Bukovyna was moved to Chernivsti by the Austrians.  Both cities had a population of Armenians with their own richly deocorated churches and of course schools right up until WW1.
The national poet of Romania, Mihai Eminescu, born Eminovich, is suspected of Armenian descent. Or even Turkish  :eek:. His last name is ultimately Arabic  :eek: :eek: :eek:
 

augustin717

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
7,110
Reaction score
191
Points
63
Faith
Higher Criticism
Jurisdiction
Dutch
Up to 1948 about 50 thousand Armenians lived in Romania, now about 2 or 3 thousand, IIRC, are left.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
130
Reaction score
0
Points
0
danman916 said:
filipinopilgrim said:
 

The fact that so many top Catholic theologians and lay leaders are easily fooled by paranormal phenomena that would have been denounced out of hand by any Catholic priest prior to Vatican II, and by anyone really familiar with Catholic ascetical and mystical theology, just goes to show how so many Catholics are ignorant of their own tradition.

Oh, Puleez. This is nothing more than polemics again.
Geez.

I'm Catholic myself, and a blogger as well. You don't do our faith any favors by pretending that everything is perfect. It seems to me that you've been completely unaware of all the major issues in our Church regarding dissent against the Magisterium of the Popes.
 

Alveus Lacuna

Taxiarches
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
26
Points
38
Location
Missouri, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
OCA
Irish Hermit said:
Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.
Here is the video of His Beatitude communing Roman Catholics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It's about at about the two-minute mark.
 

Second Chance

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
5
Points
36
Age
77
Location
South Carolina
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the South (OCA)
Alveus Lacuna said:
Irish Hermit said:
Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.
Here is the video of His Beatitude communing Roman Catholics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It's about at about the two-minute mark.
I did not see anyone with a big label on him, proclaiming him to be a Roman Catholic. Your conclusion is just a guess.
 

Alveus Lacuna

Taxiarches
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
26
Points
38
Location
Missouri, USA
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
OCA
Second Chance said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
Irish Hermit said:
Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.
Here is the video of His Beatitude communing Roman Catholics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It's about at about the two-minute mark.
I did not see anyone with a big label on him, proclaiming him to be a Roman Catholic. Your conclusion is just a guess.
I know, you really want to deny it, don't you? If you actually read through the other thread and did a bit of searching on this, you would see that a group of Roman Catholic pilgrims accompanied Ryden to the cathedral with the intention of doing this. She specifically promotes the disobedience of restrictions on communion between ancient churches. It's one of her big things. It's unlikely that His Beatitude knew anything about it, but he must have known what he was doing with the Roman Catholic priest. Even if that is under suspicion, assuming that some Orthodox priests in Alexandria dress that way, or that it might have been a pilgrim, the Roman Catholic monk after him should quell any doubts in your mind. Western rite Orthodox monks are very rare indeed, and any of the ones I have seen do not dress like that.

So suspend the obvious if you must. I'm not the Pope of Alexandria, and I honestly don't presume to judge his intentions. He is accountable before God, not me.
 

Second Chance

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
5
Points
36
Age
77
Location
South Carolina
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of the South (OCA)
Alveus Lacuna said:
Second Chance said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
Irish Hermit said:
Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.
Here is the video of His Beatitude communing Roman Catholics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It's about at about the two-minute mark.
I did not see anyone with a big label on him, proclaiming him to be a Roman Catholic. Your conclusion is just a guess.

So suspend the obvious if you must. I'm not the Pope of Alexandria, and I honestly don't presume to judge his intentions. He is accountable before God, not me.
I agree.
 

Lenexa

Sr. Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
170
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Age
39
Location
Overland Park, KS

mike

Protostrator
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
24,873
Reaction score
4
Points
0
Age
32
Location
Białystok / Warsaw
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
No sources. I don't believe it at all.
 

Anastasios

Merarches
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
10,589
Reaction score
55
Points
48
Location
Reston, VA
Website
www.anastasioshudson.com
Faith
Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction
Greek Old Calendarist
Interesting--I think I have spoken with that priest several times. He's on my FB friends list.

I'm not surprised that there was a concelebrated Orthodox-Roman Catholic liturgy; I was present at one such myself in 1999 (naturally, the Orthodox priest was acting in disobedience).  People do all sorts of crazy things in this modern age of relativism. Nothing shocks me anymore.
 
Top