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Vassula Ryden Excommunicated

Alveus Lacuna

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LBK said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
orthonorm said:
But hey David sang and danced naked, so who are we to judge?
Did he do it in the temple during the liturgy?
He did it around the Ark of the Covenant ....  :eek:
Can I get the scripture reference on this, please? I'm not doubting it's there, I've just never read it for myself, as my Old Testament studies are a bit lacking.
 
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Alveus Lacuna said:
LBK said:
Alveus Lacuna said:
orthonorm said:
But hey David sang and danced naked, so who are we to judge?
Did he do it in the temple during the liturgy?
He did it around the Ark of the Covenant ....  :eek:
Can I get the scripture reference on this, please? I'm not doubting it's there, I've just never read it for myself, as my Old Testament studies are a bit lacking.
In the Orthodox Study Bible, 2 Kingdoms (2nd Samuel) chapter 6, especially verse 16, but read the whole chapter.
 

Salpy

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I think Vassula is claiming another endorsement, but I don't know if it is real.  She's claiming that an Orthodox archbishop hosted her at his residence and prayed with her at his church.

Evidently she was in Uganda in November.  An article was just published about her visit, reporting an interview she gave.  The article reads in part:

Prior to her Kampala visit, Vassula was disowned by both the Catholic and Orthodox Christian leaders and, her crusade was attended by a scanty congregation.

But in an interview with Sunday Vision, Vassula denied any ill-motives against the Church and re-affirmed the purity of her prophetic ministry.

“There is nothing evil in what I preach. Even Cardinal Ratzinger, before he became Pope, investigated my writings for over two years but he never condemned me.”

“I have also never been excommunicated from the Orthodox Church where I belong. I am just delivering God’s message of peace, unity, love, holiness and practical charity,” Vassula said.

“People who attend my crusades come from all churches. I am not starting a church. I am simply preaching to Christians, to live in unity in diversity.”

“There are some people, who are opposed to my message of love, peace and unity, who write bad things about me. It is such people who have made some religious leaders look at me with suspicion.” “You know anything that comes from God has to be persecuted while that, which comes from Satan, is cherished. Even the prophets of God, Jesus and his followers were persecuted,” she added.

Asked why she was disowned by the local Orthodox Church leaders prior to her visit, Vassula expressed feelings of disbelief and said: “I don’t think that is true. The Orthodox Archbishop Jonah Lwanga hosted me at his residence and I had tea with him. Later we went to the Church and had prayers with him. Even here at the crusade, we have been with some Orthodox priests.”
http://www.sundayvision.co.ug/detail.php?mainNewsCategoryId=7&newsCategoryId=478&newsId=745848

Of course she is being disingenuous when she says she has never been excommunicated from the Orthodox Church.  She knows she has been excommunicated.

I'm wondering, though, about what happened (or didn't happen) with Archbishop Jonah.  She and her followers have been known to be deceptive about endorsements from clergy.  Does anyone know anything about this? 
 

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Vassula is on good terms with many Orthodox hierarchy.  The regular pilgrimages she organises always include many Orthodox clergy.  At the last pilgrimage in 2009, the Abbot of Patmos, Archmandrite Antipas visited the 800 strong pilgrimage group.  A photo of him with Vassula during the pilgrimage can be seen at:
http://www.tligpilgrimages.org/greecetwis.html

I think it should be helpful also if I post a link to a detailed report of Vassula's dealings with the Vatican over the years.  The report includes a photo of Vassula with Cardinal Ratzinger in his office in the Vatican only a few months before he became Pope.  The link is at:
http://www.cdf-tlig.org

 

Iconodule

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davidtlig said:
Vassula is on good terms with many Orthodox hierarchy.  The regular pilgrimages she organises always include many Orthodox clergy.  At the last pilgrimage in 2009, the Abbot of Patmos, Archmandrite Antipas visited the 800 strong pilgrimage group.  A photo of him with Vassula during the pilgrimage can be seen at:
http://www.tligpilgrimages.org/greecetwis.html
Has the Archimandrite been disciplined or censured for this? Or is this like those times when the Moonies "trick" members of the US congress to come to their functions?
 

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davidtlig said:
Vassula is on good terms with many Orthodox hierarchy.  The regular pilgrimages she organises always include many Orthodox clergy.  At the last pilgrimage in 2009, the Abbot of Patmos, Archmandrite Antipas visited the 800 strong pilgrimage group.  A photo of him with Vassula during the pilgrimage can be seen at:
http://www.tligpilgrimages.org/greecetwis.html

I think it should be helpful also if I post a link to a detailed report of Vassula's dealings with the Vatican over the years.  The report includes a photo of Vassula with Cardinal Ratzinger in his office in the Vatican only a few months before he became Pope.  The link is at:  http://www.cdf-tlig.org
Don't feed us the propaganda.  She is excommunicated and/or a non-member of the Orthodox Church (EO and OO, as documented well here on the 'net) and the Roman Catholic Church, so spare us.
 

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Iconodule said:
davidtlig said:
Vassula is on good terms with many Orthodox hierarchy.  The regular pilgrimages she organises always include many Orthodox clergy.  At the last pilgrimage in 2009, the Abbot of Patmos, Archmandrite Antipas visited the 800 strong pilgrimage group.  A photo of him with Vassula during the pilgrimage can be seen at:
http://www.tligpilgrimages.org/greecetwis.html
Has the Archimandrite been disciplined or censured for this? Or is this like those times when the Moonies "trick" members of the US congress to come to their functions?
It's probably the latter.  She and her followers will go on these pilgrimages, get Vassula's picture taken with clergy who will normally greet and talk with any large group of pilgrims, and then claim that these clergy support Vassula.

Really, all Orthodox Churches need to spread this woman's name and picture to all its clergy, along with a warning not to get their picture taken with her.


David,
Getting your picture taken with someone is very different from getting their approval.  Pope Benedict has made it very clear in writing, more than once over the years, that he does not approve of Vassula.
 

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I realise that not many of the active people on this forum will want to hear anything 'positive' about Vassula but I hope there are others who view the postings who may be a little more open.

I wonder if you are aware that the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria is very supportive of her.  If you don't believe me, please view the video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN6L8owknfc

Getting your picture taken with someone is very different from getting their approval
Reading the account of what led up to Vassula's meeting with Cardinal Ratzinger demonstrates how the granting of a meeting was indeed only possible after a thorough investigation had removed all the Cardinal's concerns.  Do please read the details (at:  http://www.cdf-tlig.org/introduction.html)

 

LBK

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davidtlig, your username gives you away as a supporter of Vassula Ryden. Of course you would post in favorable terms regarding her. Unfortunately, those of us who are old and ugly enough, know better.

From the Orthodox perspective:

Any number of priests, bishops and hierarchs have denounced her pronouncements, and very senioir levels of clergy have proclaimed Ms Ryden to be no longer in good standing in the Orthodox Church (i.e. to be excommunicated). Moreover, her photo-ops have also been discredited, once the clergy she has been photographed become aware of her statements and beliefs which are utterly contrary to Orthodox doctrine and theology.

You might not like to hear this, davidtlig, but it's the truth.
 

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First of all, I certainly don't want to give anyone the impression that I am anything other than a strong supporter and promoter of Vassula.  I have contributed to this forum simply because I found the thread on Google and I felt that the contributors probably knew very little about Vassula or her mission.

I am well aware of the persecution that Vassula and any clergy that support her have to undergo.  It is the nature of any true prophecy that it will be strongly persecuted.  Patriarch Theodore of Alexandria (see video above) certainly experienced intense criticism after his welcoming of Vassula and her group and he is no longer able to provide such open and strong public support for her, yet he continues to believe she is an authentic prophet and he met her again in South Africa at Easter last year.

Thank you for allowing me to make these postings.

 

Irish Hermit

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I adore Vassula!

1. She and her locutions and her magic writings had the approval of Catholic bishops at the time when she had abandoned her first husband and was living in a long-term relationship with her lover (now her second husband.)  *Anybody* who can gain the approval of her visions by the Catholic hierarchy as legitimate when she was living in mortal sin has to be special!!  Just shows how wrong we have all been to think that sexual purity is a prerequisite to being a good Christian, and certainly for being chosen by Jesus as His voice in the world.

2.  Most of all, I adore her for the locution from Jesus which she revealed on her Russian tour, that He had revealed that the Patriarch of Moscow would assume control of the united Universal Church, displacing the Pope of Rome.

I vote to canonise her before she dies! 
 

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There can be no better illustration of the venom Vassula has to endure than the posting above.

Fr Rene Laurentin has written the following about her matrimonial position:

"She is divorced and remarried...... In fact, her marital status today is perfectly in order. She was married in church to a Protestant (1966) at a time when she was not practicing any religion. After a civil divorce (1980) she was remarried on June 13, 1981. She thought, at the time, that it was a Protestant ceremony according to her husband's religion, but, in fact, it was a civil marriage. Only a nominal Christian, without contact with her Orthodox Church, she did not even know that her remarriage could be the source of problems. When she presented herself to her church to regularize her marriage, the first priest to whom she spoke could not even seem to feel that there was a problem since it was a mixed marriage. But she insisted, in order to be truly in accord with Orthodox legislation. It was then that she was referred to the priest in charge of marriage problems, and it was he who took care of the matter following the 'law of economy' that deals with broken marriages in her church.

"The marriage was celebrated on October 13,1990, in the Greek Orthodox Church of Lausanne. Thus, according to church law her situation presents no problems."


 

Irish Hermit

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davidtlig said:
There can be no better illustration of the venom Vassula has to endure than the posting above.
There is a deep core of venom and bitterness within Vassula Ryden.  Does anyone recall her prophecy about the attack on the Twin Towers?  She told the world that it was Jesus punishing the Americans.

Here is the crux of what Jesus said to Vassula: "How can I not breathe on these renegades My Purifying Fire? ... every evil built into Towers will collapse into a heap of rubble and be buried in the dust of sin."

This prophecy was given to Vassula on 11 September 1991 - ten years exactly before the Towers were attacked and collapsed.

Actually the whole prophecy is very heavy and is replete with Jesus' threats of vengeance and destruction. There's a lot of hatred in her revelations, mixed in with the sweet stuff.


 

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She told the world that it was Jesus punishing the Americans.
What Vassula actually said regarding the prophetic 'Twin Towers' message can be read at:
http://www.tlig.org/en/messages/654/

Readers will find no venom in Vassula's commentary on the message.

I remain amazed that people can remain indifferent to the 'coincidence' of Vassula receiving the above message 10 years to the day before the actual events in New York.

As to the messages showing the Justice, severity yet Mercy of God, they do of course perfectly reflect Holy Scripture.

 

ozgeorge

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Fr. George said:
davidtlig said:
Vassula is on good terms with many Orthodox hierarchy.  The regular pilgrimages she organises always include many Orthodox clergy.  At the last pilgrimage in 2009, the Abbot of Patmos, Archmandrite Antipas visited the 800 strong pilgrimage group.  A photo of him with Vassula during the pilgrimage can be seen at:
http://www.tligpilgrimages.org/greecetwis.html

I think it should be helpful also if I post a link to a detailed report of Vassula's dealings with the Vatican over the years.  The report includes a photo of Vassula with Cardinal Ratzinger in his office in the Vatican only a few months before he became Pope.  The link is at:  http://www.cdf-tlig.org
Don't feed us the propaganda.  She is excommunicated and/or a non-member of the Orthodox Church (EO and OO, as documented well here on the 'net) and the Roman Catholic Church, so spare us.
I don't think davidtlig is listening. Sadly he is enmeshed in Vassula's heresy.
 

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Quite a good response website to the above critical site can be found at:

http://www.defending-vassula.org/

As for the 'I don't think davidtlig is listening' comment, I think I will be happy to let readers of these exchanges judge who is or is not listening.


 

Irish Hermit

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It is wrong that David, a Roman Catholic, is able to come onto an Orthodox Forum and stir up dispute about Vassula Ryden.

In Catholic Forums such as Catholic Answers it is forbidden to speak about her ( as it is about any non-approved seers and visionaries) and any thread there is stopped quickly by the Mods.  Promotion of non-approved visionaries is seen as a danger to the Catholic faith.  Whereas here we tolerate it.....

???
 

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It is wrong that David, a Roman Catholic, is able to come onto an Orthodox Forum and stir up dispute about Vassula Ryden. 
I would just like to point out that David has not come on the forum to 'stir up a dispute'.  I came on to the forum simply to respond to a lot of very inaccurate and misleading posts that had been made about Vassula.  It is true that most forums, whether Orthodox or Catholic, are happy to allow discussions about Vassula providing the comments are all critical but then close down discussion if anyone responds in a supportive way to Vassula.

Surely natural justice demands that someone who is criticised or condemned is allowed to defend themselves?



 

Irish Hermit

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Some Statements from Orthodox authorities

regarding Vassula Ryden's "True Life in God" messages


http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm
 

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davidtlig said:
She told the world that it was Jesus punishing the Americans.
What Vassula actually said regarding the prophetic 'Twin Towers' message can be read at:
http://www.tlig.org/en/messages/654/

Readers will find no venom in Vassula's commentary on the message.

I remain amazed that people can remain indifferent to the 'coincidence' of Vassula receiving the above message 10 years to the day before the actual events in New York.

As to the messages showing the Justice, severity yet Mercy of God, they do of course perfectly reflect Holy Scripture.
There is no coincidence that she has fallen to a demonic apparition masquerading as Christ; the message on the linked page bears no resemblance to the Christ of the New Testament, of revelation, of the Church, of history.  She is a heretic, blasphemer, deceiver, and divider.  Be gone, minion of hers.
 

Iconodule

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The Ecumenical Patriarchate denounces Vassula:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/03/announcement-on-vassula-ryden-by.html
 

Irish Hermit

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Iconodule said:
The Ecumenical Patriarchate denounces Vassula:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/03/announcement-on-vassula-ryden-by.html
So... excommuncation of Vassula and her followers.

Warnings that canonical sanctions will be imposed on Orthodox clergy supporting her.

Please God, this will give pause to Vassula and cause her to rethink and come back to the Church in all humility.

Will these decisions from Constantinople have any flow on effect in the Roman Catholic Church?
 

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Iconodule said:
The Ecumenical Patriarchate denounces Vassula:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/03/announcement-on-vassula-ryden-by.html
Not just denunciation, excommunication. I have to say that I don't think I've seen many official excommunications like this since I've been Orthodox. (then again, it's only be a couple years)
 

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Within a week, Vassula's followers will be saying that His All Holiness has changed his position and now accepts Vassula and endorses her writings. 

That's what they do when the Vatican issues warnings about her.
 

ialmisry

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Salpy said:
Within a week, Vassula's followers will be saying that His All Holiness has changed his position and now accepts Vassula and endorses her writings.  

That's what they do when the Vatican issues warnings about her.
That's fine. At least we have an official excommunication, so the thinking need not bother further with her nonsense and those who cloaked it with the hiearchy's silence. God guide her and her misguided followers back/to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
 

Salpy

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Irish Hermit said:
It is wrong that David, a Roman Catholic, is able to come onto an Orthodox Forum and stir up dispute about Vassula Ryden.

In Catholic Forums such as Catholic Answers it is forbidden to speak about her ( as it is about any non-approved seers and visionaries) and any thread there is stopped quickly by the Mods.   Promotion of non-approved visionaries is seen as a danger to the Catholic faith.  Whereas here we tolerate it.....

???

It's allowed so that people can be warned about her.  If we don't allow any discussion about her, then when people come across her heresy they'll get taken in by it.
 

Salpy

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The article indicates that nine Orthodox clergy have been found to have promoted her.  Is there anything more on that?  At least one incident is probably the one discussed here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29992.0.html

In reply 86 of this thread, I linked an article where Vassula claimed to have had tea and a joint prayer service with an archbishop in Africa.  I doubt it is true, or Vassula's followers would be showing the pictures all over the internet.

I would like to know about these nine clergy, not because I want to judge them or gossip about them.  It would just be nice to know, so we can separate out the real incidents where clergy have endorsed her, from the lies told by her and her followers.
 

Irish Hermit

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I feel sorry for her.  Unless she has the skin of an elephant it must be dreadful to have been outlawed by both the Synod of the Greek Church in Athens ands now the Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Let's pray for her.  May God's love for her bring her to healthier attitudes.  All these years of plani-prelest will not be easy to slough off.

Dear Lord, have compassion on your child.
 

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That archbishop in Africa is probably abp.Milingo. He seems to be very active in his ecumenism. I suggest that you type in Milingo and see what you gets.
 

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I googled Archbishop Milingo, and he does seem like the kind of person who would get together with Vassula.

Vassula, however, was claiming to be friends with Archbishop Jonah Lwanga:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5925.msg531703.html#msg531703

Like I said, I doubt it's true.  If there were any truth to it, we'd see pictures all over the place and there would be a scandal like with the priest in Romania.
 

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I can't recall if this article has ever been linked here before, but it's a good one:

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=08-01-017-f

It's by a Catholic scholar who was asked by Vassula herself to examine her work.  What he had to say did not make her supporters happy.
 

LizaSymonenko

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...makes me nauseous!  :(
 

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You're not kidding.

It was either in this thread or another thread, where I mentioned that when I spent a few days a while back reading her messages, I felt like purging myself afterwards. 

They are highly emotional, and the worst messages are the ones that come off as inappropriately sexual in nature.  The scholar who wrote the article I just linked picked up on it also.  I'm glad he mentioned it.  It means I'm not the only one who noticed it.  :)
 

Second Chance

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Irish Hermit said:
I feel sorry for her.   Unless she has the skin of an elephant it must be dreadful to have been outlawed by both the Synod of the Greek Church in Athens ands now the Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Let's pray for her.  May God's love for her bring her to healthier attitudes.  All these years of plani-prelest will not be easy to slough off.

Dear Lord, have compassion on your child.
Yes, this is the only thing that is left to say at this time. Lord have mercy.
 

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From the Holy Synod of Constantinople

The Orthodox Church, following strictly the shining example and teaching of the Holy Apostles, the teaching of the Fathers of the Church who have their succession, and the divinely-inspired decisions of the Ecumenical Synods, safeguards as a pearl of great price the faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which the Christian plenitude experiences through their participation in the Sacraments and entire spiritual life of the divinely-founded ecclesiastical body.

Hence, whatever movement and improvised tension, personal or collective, in contempt or in breach of the dogmas of the Orthodox Christian faith and life in Christ within the Church as the only path for the salvation of our souls, all the more the self-proclaimed "supposedly charismatic" personality, is rejected always as an unacceptable innovation.

In this spirit, and for the beneficial protection of our pious Orthodox plenitude from dangerous spiritual confusion, who do not know well matters underlying the risk of delusion, rejects from the Mother Church Vasiliki Paraskevis Pentaki - Ryden, widely known as "Vassula", and her organization founded under the title "True Life In God" which rashly and frivolously proposes teachings based on the supposed "direct dialogue between her and the Founder of the Church Jesus Christ our Lord", and those conquered by her and the supporters of "True Life In God", which deviate arbitrarily from the God-given teaching of the Church, but also scandalize the Orthodox phronema of pious believers.

Hence, we call upon the proponents of these unacceptable innovations and the supporters who maintain them, who henceforth are not admitted to ecclesiastical communion, not only to not be involved in the pastoral work of the local Holy Metropolis, but also to not preach their novel teachings, to prevent the appropriate sanctions under the Holy Canons.

We express, lastly, the profound sorrow of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of the acts of some - fortunately few - clergy of the Orthodox Church to be found at talks of the said "Vassula" and give to her a "certificate of Orthodoxy."

At the Patriarchate, the 16th of March 2011
Of the Chief Secretariat of the Holy and Sacred Synod

Translated by John Sanidopoulos

Sources
http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/03/announcement-on-vassula-ryden-by.html
http://www.ec-patr.org/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=1306&tla=gr
 

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I think she should have been excommunicated a long time ago.

Pope Theodore of Alexandria, as well as Pope Shenouda have been way too lenient, allowing heretics to practice in both churches. I was ashamed to see videos of Vassula kissing Pope Shenouda's hand, with her choirs filling the cathedral to the max. I had the same reaction when I saw Pope Theodore's statement, inviting her to celebrate easter in Alexandria. He welcomed her into the royal throne room, and accepted her as a valued guest, as if she was a patriarch or something.

This is one of the few times I have been ashamed to be an Orthodox, frankly.

Copticyouth93
 

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copticyouth93 said:
I think she should have been excommunicated a long time ago. 
She was - by the Church of Greece (her native land), and by the Roman Catholic Church (actually, I think what they did was affirm that she was never Catholic and would never be based on her teachings).
 

John Larocque

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The church in Cyprus weighs in.

http://www.impantokratoros.gr/church-cyprus-vassoula-ryden.en.aspx

Synodical Committee for Matters of Heresy
Holy Archdiocese of Cyprus
13 January 2012.

Topic: The heretical positions of Vassiliki (Vassula) Pendakis-Ryden.

Over the last few days Vassula Ryden has been appearing in the media, giving lectures and trying to come into contact with bishops and priests, giving the impression that she presents and teaches the Orthodox Christian faith. In reality, her teachings are heretical, and her claims that she communicates directly with Christ are fantastical and outside of the spirit of the experience of the our Church.

Seeing that she tries, not only in Cyprus, to present herself as Orthodox and that she possesses certificates of Orthodoxy from bishops, we cite the Ecumenical Patriarchate's explicit announcement regarding this matter
Meanwhile, she's launched a lawsuit against a website which reported that she had been excommunicated by the Ecumenical Patriarch.

http://www.infovassula.ch/tlighome.html
http://www.infovassula.ch/thenarrowdoor.htm

Her lawyers:

"Even if the Patriarchate has indeed asked Mrs Ryden to cease her activities among the orthodox community, one has to admit that Mrs Ryden has submitted to the Patriarchate's will. Indeed, since the Patriarchate's communication, Mrs Ryden has only participated in conferences that took place exclusively in northern Europe, where the Orthodox Church is almost absent. Nothing impedes Mrs Ryden from meeting Catholic or Protestant faithful. It therefore results that this "choice of a schismatic nature" is a strict obedience to the Patriarchate's requests."
 

LizaSymonenko

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Pffffff!

Excuse me.....that was me choking on my coffee!

So, the Patriarch's request to cease and desist only refers to the Orthodox?  Amazing how some people's minds work - or don't work.
 
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