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Vatican investing gold of Orthodox died in death-camps in wars against Orthodox

ozgeorge

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Orthodoc said:
By their deeds thay shall be known! 
By whose deeds who shall be known?
Are all American People racist, bigoted idiots because of your past Slavery and Segregation? Is this how I should know you?
 

Orthodoc

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SolEX01 said:
Orthodoc said:
After all the info that has been presented, all the websites already given (and there are more) I can provide. One can still have the audacity to attribute it all to an 'axe to grind' is beyond my comprehension!
Using History as a guide - if the nation of Israel was created as a consequence of the Holocaust, what do Orthodox Christians wish to gain by the atrocities committed by Roman Catholics.  If the Kingdom of Heaven is an audacity, what else do our Serbian friends want to see if not the literal "an eye for an eye?"

Orthodoc said:
The reason we study history is in the hope that by study them, past atrocities will not occur again.  And what we are discussing here took place less than seventy years ago!
The atrocities were committed by Roman Catholics against Orthodox.  The slogan of the Utashie regarding the Orthodox Serbs were that -One third were to be converted, one third to be exioled, and one third to be killed.

The Great Depression is repeating before our eyes in a greatly condensed time frame than the original.  Out of the first Great Depression came the above atrocities and atrocities on a far worse scale are likely to come out of this Great Depression.
Orthodoc said:
Sometimes we Orthodox are our own worst enemies!

By their deeds thay shall be known!
What does the Great Depression have to do with the sluyghter of over 700,000 Serbian orthodox Christians?

I'm not sure if you're taking a cheap shot or if you're contradicting yourself?   ???
By their deeds they shall be known refers to the Coration Utashe which were supported by the RCC!

==========

There were plenty pictures of Roman Catholic clergy  honoring Hitler by giving the Nazi salute.  See -

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

The Vatican and the Nazis
 
http://sxws.com/charis/history-6.htm
 

=================


Orthodoc
 

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Orthodoc,

To say the Ustashe was supported by the Catholic Church is a bit much.  Certainly some Catholics were members and supporters, including some clergy, but that can hardly be claimed as official sanction by the Catholic Church.  The same claim can be made about some Orthodox in Romania and Bulgaria which were part of the Axis.  Can I therefore conclude the Orthodox Church supported the Axis?  Of course not.  It is ridiculous claims like these that make it appear people have axes to grind.

Fr. Deacon Lance
 

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Deacon Lance said:
Orthodoc,

To say the Ustashe was supported by the Catholic Church is a bit much.  Certainly some Catholics were members and supporters, including some clergy, but that can hardly be claimed as official sanction by the Catholic Church.   The same claim can be made about some Orthodox in Romania and Bulgaria which were part of the Axis.  Can I therefore conclude the Orthodox Church supported the Axis?  Of course not.  It is ridiculous claims like these that make it appear people have axes to grind.

Fr. Deacon Lance
Then how come the Vatican still won't open it's archives regarding this period of history?  And how come so many Utashe members who were also Catholic priests ended up in South America (Argentia) with Vatican passports?

--------------

December 6, 2006


Letter to the Editor
The New York Times


Dear Editor:


Arrogantly Nicholas Wood's article, "Unscrambling the History of a Nazi Camp" was like handing Mr. Wood an egg beater as he did more scrambling than many  Holocaust deniers.  Calling this a "Nazi Camp" is a misleading distortion of the facts.  Jasenovac was a Croatian Death Camp run by Croatian Nazi collaborators who murdered their own neighbors. Your headline implies that this was another German Concentration Camp. 


In my 1997 book Jasenovac Then and Now: A Conspiracy of Silence, I document dozens of eye witness testimonies which place the number of victims at Jasenovac at well over 400,000 as early as 1942, including the testimonies of a number of German officers. Croatian revisionists who now place the number of dead as low as 40,000 or to an insulting high of 97,000 imply that there were no atrocities committed against the Serbs and Jews for the remaining 3 years of the war?  There were only 87 survivors of the Jasenovac Concentration Camp, named the "Auschwitz of the Balkans" by most historians.  These survivors place the number of dead in excess of 800,000.


One of those survivors was Antun Miletich, a Croatian.  Here is his 1948 testimony: "There is not a pen capable of describing the horror and terror of the atmosphere at Jasenovac.  It surpasses any human fantasy.  Imagine Hell, the Inquisition, a terror more dreadful than any that ever before existed anywhere, run by bloodthirsty wild animals whose most hidden and disgusting instinct had come to the surface in a way never before seen in human beings—and still you have not said enough."


The Jasenovac system of Croatian camps also included a camp for children run by Catholic nuns who used toxic soda to save bullets.  They put to death over 100,000 Serbian children under the age of ten years.  There are hundreds of documents to attest to these hideous crimes.  There are countless documents that also attest to the fact that 743 Roman Catholic priests were members of the Ustashi and personally murdered Serbs, Jews and Gypsies. Jasenovac was for a time, run by Fr. Filipovic-Majstorovic, a Catholic priest who admitted to killing "40,000 Serbs with his own hands." The 40,000 figure was used in 1991 by the late Croatian president, Franjo Tudjman, who was quoted in the Jerusalem Post on December, 1991 as saying,  "I am a doubly lucky man, my wife is neither Serbian nor Jewish."  His insistence that "only 40,000 Serbs perished at Jasenovac"  exposes the level of cover up of this genocide by the Croatian people.


Fr. Petar Brzica, a Catholic priest and camp guard at Jasenovac was nicknamed "King of the Killers." In a contest on August 29, 1942 to see who could kill the most Serbs in one night Fr. Brzica won by slitting the throats of 1,350 Serbs.
The 743 Roman Catholic priests who participated in the killing of tens of thousands of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies and the running of Jasenovac escaped Europe through the "Vatican Ratline" run by Fr. Draganovich, a Croatian Catholic priest who helped morons like Clause Barbe escape from Europe.  Those Catholic priests escaped to Argentina where they also escaped justice. 
I am the first plaintiff in a class action law suit against the Vatican Bank to recover $100 million in damages for the Vatican's participation in these war crimes and money laundering the proceeds from their Serb, Jewish and Roma victims.  Vatican lawyers have three times tried to get this case thrown out of court.  The Supreme court has rejected their claims.
William Dorich

------------------

Orthodoc
 

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Since I was not able to figure out how to correct my color scheme let me reprint the letter to the NY Times from my file.

=============

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/manhattan-vatican.html

=====================

December 6, 2006


Letter to the Editor
The New York Times


Dear Editor:


Arrogantly Nicholas Wood's article, "Unscrambling the History of a Nazi Camp" was like handing Mr. Wood an egg beater as he did more scrambling than many  Holocaust deniers.  Calling this a "Nazi Camp" is a misleading distortion of the facts.  Jasenovac was a Croatian Death Camp run by Croatian Nazi collaborators who murdered their own neighbors. Your headline implies that this was another German Concentration Camp.  


In my 1997 book Jasenovac Then and Now: A Conspiracy of Silence, I document dozens of eye witness testimonies which place the number of victims at Jasenovac at well over 400,000 as early as 1942, including the testimonies of a number of German officers. Croatian revisionists who now place the number of dead as low as 40,000 or to an insulting high of 97,000 imply that there were no atrocities committed against the Serbs and Jews for the remaining 3 years of the war?   There were only 87 survivors of the Jasenovac Concentration Camp, named the "Auschwitz of the Balkans" by most historians.  These survivors place the number of dead in excess of 800,000.


One of those survivors was Antun Miletich, a Croatian.  Here is his 1948 testimony: "There is not a pen capable of describing the horror and terror of the atmosphere at Jasenovac.  It surpasses any human fantasy.  Imagine Hell, the Inquisition, a terror more dreadful than any that ever before existed anywhere, run by bloodthirsty wild animals whose most hidden and disgusting instinct had come to the surface in a way never before seen in human beings—and still you have not said enough."


The Jasenovac system of Croatian camps also included a camp for children run by Catholic nuns who used toxic soda to save bullets.  They put to death over 100,000 Serbian children under the age of ten years.  There are hundreds of documents to attest to these hideous crimes.  There are countless documents that also attest to the fact that 743 Roman Catholic priests were members of the Ustashi and personally murdered Serbs, Jews and Gypsies. Jasenovac was for a time, run by Fr. Filipovic-Majstorovic, a Catholic priest who admitted to killing "40,000 Serbs with his own hands." The 40,000 figure was used in 1991 by the late Croatian president, Franjo Tudjman, who was quoted in the Jerusalem Post on December, 1991 as saying,  "I am a doubly lucky man, my wife is neither Serbian nor Jewish."  His insistence that "only 40,000 Serbs perished at Jasenovac"  exposes the level of cover up of this genocide by the Croatian people.


Fr. Petar Brzica, a Catholic priest and camp guard at Jasenovac was nicknamed "King of the Killers." In a contest on August 29, 1942 to see who could kill the most Serbs in one night Fr. Brzica won by slitting the throats of 1,350 Serbs.


The 743 Roman Catholic priests who participated in the killing of tens of thousands of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies and the running of Jasenovac escaped Europe through the "Vatican Ratline" run by Fr. Draganovich, a Croatian Catholic priest who helped morons like Clause Barbe escape from Europe.  Those Catholic priests escaped to Argentina where they also escaped justice.  


I am the first plaintiff in a class action law suit against the Vatican Bank to recover $100 million in damages for the Vatican's participation in these war crimes and money laundering the proceeds from their Serb, Jewish and Roma victims.  Vatican lawyers have three times tried to get this case thrown out of court.  The Supreme court has rejected their claims.


William Dorich

===============

Orthodoc
 

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Orthodoc,

Then how come the Vatican still won't open it's archives regarding this period of history?  And how come so many Utashe members who were also Catholic priests ended up in South America (Argentia) with Vatican passports?
The Vatican is quite stingy with its archive concerning all periods.  They won't even let me in to take a look.  As to passports, do you really think the Pope oversees things like passport issuing?  I am sure their is quite a bit of bureacratic corruption at the Vatican, up to and including Croatian members of the diplomatic corps issuing passports to Croatian war criminals.  There was the Vatican bank scandal a few years back as well.  None of this implies the Pope or the Catholic Church at large supported the Ustashe or the war crimes they committed.  Which I should point out they also commited against Byzantine Catholics of the Eparchy of Krizevci.  Croats worshiping like thier dread enemies the Serbs I suppose was the reasoning on that one.

Fr. Deacon Lance

PS  The Supreme Court has no ability to judge or pass sentence on a sovereign nation, which the Vatican City State is.
 

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SolEX01 said:
As difficult as it may be to comprehend, anyone who has an ax to grind against Roman Catholics needs to drop that ax NOW!!

For in failing to drop the ax, one also fails to obey Christ's instructions to deny himself, lift up his cross and follow Him. (Mark 8:34-38)!!

Vengeance is a passion originating from Satan.  To walk as Children of Light, one has to put aside the darkness of revenge.  Our Holy Martyrs
Who's "our?"
suffered far worse than the Serbs under the Ustashi, the Greeks under the Turks, the Arabs under the Muslims, the Russians under the Mongols/Tartars, the British Clergy under William the Conqueror, and so on....
I don't understand who's being compared here.
 

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SolEX01 said:
Orthodoc said:
After all the info that has been presented, all the websites already given (and there are more) I can provide. One can still have the audacity to attribute it all to an 'axe to grind' is beyond my comprehension!
Using History as a guide - if the nation of Israel was created as a consequence of the Holocaust, what do Orthodox Christians wish to gain by the atrocities committed by Roman Catholics.  If the Kingdom of Heaven is an audacity, what else do our Serbian friends want to see if not the literal "an eye for an eye?"
Funny you should mention that: when I was in Yugoslavia ('87) they had the pitchforks the Ustase modified so that they could poke out both eyes at once of Serb.

Orthodoc said:
The reason we study history is in the hope that by study them, past atrocities will not occur again.  And what we are discussing here took place less than seventy years ago!
When the newly proclaimed (and immediately Vatican recognized) independent Croatia starting renaming streets and public squares after Ustase, banning Cyrillic etc. the Serbs decided not to wait to see where that was going. Jovan Roskavic led the Croatian Serbs, until Trudjman got the bright idea of discrediting him to get Serbs more to his liking.  He got the Serbian Republic of Krajina instead.

The Great Depression is repeating before our eyes in a greatly condensed time frame than the original.  Out of the first Great Depression came the above atrocities and atrocities on a far worse scale are likely to come out of this Great Depression.
Something else that someone who is blamed for everything including hurricanes is going to get blamed for?

Orthodoc said:
Sometimes we Orthodox are our own worst enemies!

By their deeds thay shall be known!
Too true.

 

ialmisry

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Deacon Lance said:
Orthodoc,

To say the Ustashe was supported by the Catholic Church is a bit much.  Certainly some Catholics were members and supporters, including some clergy, but that can hardly be claimed as official sanction by the Catholic Church.  The same claim can be made about some Orthodox in Romania and Bulgaria which were part of the Axis.  Can I therefore conclude the Orthodox Church supported the Axis?  Of course not.  It is ridiculous claims like these that make it appear people have axes to grind.

Fr. Deacon Lance
I'll give you Romania, but what do you have on Bulgaria?

Deacon Lance said:
Orthodoc,

Then how come the Vatican still won't open it's archives regarding this period of history?  And how come so many Utashe members who were also Catholic priests ended up in South America (Argentia) with Vatican passports?
The Vatican is quite stingy with its archive concerning all periods.  They won't even let me in to take a look.  As to passports, do you really think the Pope oversees things like passport issuing?  I am sure their is quite a bit of bureacratic corruption at the Vatican, up to and including Croatian members of the diplomatic corps issuing passports to Croatian war criminals.  There was the Vatican bank scandal a few years back as well.  None of this implies the Pope or the Catholic Church at large supported the Ustashe or the war crimes they committed.  Which I should point out they also commited against Byzantine Catholics of the Eparchy of Krizevci.  Croats worshiping like thier dread enemies the Serbs I suppose was the reasoning on that one.

Fr. Deacon Lance

PS  The Supreme Court has no ability to judge or pass sentence on a sovereign nation, which the Vatican City State is.
Oh, guess again on that.  Just ask Iran, Kurt Waldheim, Yassir Arafat and the Palestinian Autority.
 

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ialmisry said:
Who's "our?"
When the statement is chopped in half, confusion is artificially created.  ;D
You, I and every other Orthodox believer have the same witnesses, the Holy Martyrs.

ialmisry said:
[quote author=SolEX01] Our Holy Martyrs suffered far worse than the Serbs under the Ustashi, the Greeks under the Turks, the Arabs under the Muslims, the Russians under the Mongols/Tartars, the British Clergy under William the Conqueror, and so on....
I don't understand who's being compared here.[/quote]

My point is that the suffering and oppression of one Orthodox people (e.g. the Serbs) needs not be constantly emphasized in light of what happened to Orthodox witnesses throughout the course of history.  Just as Roman Empire had their agenda in persecuting early Christians, an agenda exists for the mistreatment of Serbs.  We will not resolve that problem in this forum and those who wish for a resolution will not find the resolution they are looking for.  ???
 

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ialmisry said:
The Great Depression is repeating before our eyes in a greatly condensed time frame than the original.  Out of the first Great Depression came the above atrocities and atrocities on a far worse scale are likely to come out of this Great Depression.
Something else Bush is going to get blamed for?
And why is this political commentary needed on a thread in the PUBLIC forum? ???  It's not even remotely relevant to this topic.
 

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ozgeorge said:
stashko said:
Excuse me why am i deprived of adding photos with my posts ,under moderation,,,??????
You aren't.

stashko said:
picture say a thousand word's and more....<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_29.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">
You do realize that that Cross you just posted is a gif picture don't you? So you can't possibly be "deprived" of posting images now, can you?
But clearly, you're not in a state to receive any logical correction.


Stop judging me Mr know it all,,you don't know me....im saying in additional options to attach a picture it doesn't show up thats all...i have no option's to attach anything....<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_29.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">
 

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SolEX01 said:
My point is that the suffering and oppression of one Orthodox people (e.g. the Serbs) needs not be constantly emphasized in light of what happened to Orthodox witnesses throughout the course of history. 
Excuse me, I really meant I was off, but could you expand this I bit, because I really can't understand it.

Are you saying that Serbian Holy Martyrs should not be celebrated along with other Orthodox martyrs? If yes, why?
 

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orthodoxlurker said:
SolEX01 said:
My point is that the suffering and oppression of one Orthodox people (e.g. the Serbs) needs not be constantly emphasized in light of what happened to Orthodox witnesses throughout the course of history. 
Excuse me, I really meant I was off, but could you expand this I bit, because I really can't understand it.
Yes, bad things have happened to Serbia in the last 60-70 years.  The International Community looks the other way just as the Roman Empire did in the first 300 years of Christianity.  All I'm saying is move on as an Orthodox Christian, nothing more.

orthodoxlurker said:
Are you saying that Serbian Holy Martyrs should not be celebrated along with other Orthodox martyrs? If yes, why?
Brother, slow your brain down and observe that I never said anything about not celebreating Serbia's Holy Martyrs.  The answer to the above question is ΟΧΙ (Greek for NO) because your Holy Martyrs are also My Holy Martyrs and vice versa.  :)
 

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stashko said:
Stop judging me Mr know it all,,you don't know me....im saying in additional options to attach a picture it doesn't show up thats all...i have no option's to attach anything....<img src="http://www.goarch.org/images/eImages/homepage/agiaskepi.jpg" alt="Goarch.org" border="0">
I replaced your cross with an image of an icon from the GOA Website by using the link address.

 

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SolEX01 said:
stashko said:
Stop judging me Mr know it all,,you don't know me....im saying in additional options to attach a picture it doesn't show up thats all...i have no option's to attach anything....<img src="http://www.goarch.org/images/eImages/homepage/agiaskepi.jpg" alt="Goarch.org" border="0">
I replaced your cross with an image of an icon from the GOA Website by using the link address.
Thank you! im learning somthing new..i didn't know you can that,,very interesting....hummm....<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_1_225.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_29.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">
 

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SolEX01 said:
^ See, you can still post smilies - nothing changed besides your status.   ;)

smileys attach differently they have there own way  ..once i allow the computer to grant them access i can copy and paste them,without using the additional options below ....to insert them....<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_29.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">under the warned label i have access to use the additional option/but under the moderated label i didn't have that option ,,i hope im explaining myself better so you would under stand what i mean...
thanks to you i can insert other images thru the smiley program which i didn't know before..<img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_29.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0">
 

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Folks, I have two gold teeth. They are still used for certain situations where ordinary crowns are not expected to hold up. It is pretty well demonstrated that I have no Romany ancestors.

And frankly, I don't know why this thread was ever permitted. It's bad enough that a certain other person keeps ragging on the bishop of Rome and his church, but this poisonous piece itself admits that it is highly speculative.
 

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Keble said:
And frankly, I don't know why this thread was ever permitted. It's bad enough that a certain other person keeps ragging on the bishop of Rome and his church, but this poisonous piece itself admits that it is highly speculative.
Finally...a voice of reason!
 

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Keble said:
And frankly, I don't know why this thread was ever permitted.
Unfortunately our penchant for free speech allows both trash and treasure to get through the filter.
 

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Veniamin said:
So because no one takes your half-baked conspiracies seriously, we should ban you from participating? 
Silly me.

Here is the film about pooling the golden teeth out. By Ustashe. From the victims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related

Part from 1:27 to 2:00

Of course, expecting from Veniamint to produce a comment after this would be yet another silliness on my part.
 

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orthodoxlurker said:
Veniamin said:
So because no one takes your half-baked conspiracies seriously, we should ban you from participating? 
Silly me.

Here is the film about pooling the golden teeth out. By Ustashe. From the victims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related

Part from 1:27 to 2:00

Of course, expecting from Veniamint to produce a comment after this would be yet another silliness on my part.
1.  Who posted this video on youtube?
2.  What was the submitter hoping to accomplish by posting this video on youtube?
3.  Do you expect us to believe the video merely because it was posted on youtube?
4.  What do you hope to accomplish by reviving this turd--er, I mean thread?
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
orthodoxlurker said:
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related
...
1.  Who posted this video on youtube?
...
There is the screen name of each publisher on youtube. Can't you read it? It's on the right side of your browser.

PeterTheAleut said:
orthodoxlurker said:
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related
...
2.  What was the submitter hoping to accomplish by posting this video on youtube?
I don't know, I'm not clairvoyant.

PeterTheAleut said:
orthodoxlurker said:
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related
...
3.  Do you expect us to believe the video merely because it was posted on youtube?
No, I don't. I actually expect people to see the footage of the teeth.

PeterTheAleut said:
orthodoxlurker said:
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related
...
4.  What do you hope to accomplish by reviving this turd--er, I mean thread?
I missed you spell-checking and grammar-proofing of my posts, so my hope was that you'd be able to find several items to play with.
 

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Not to put too fine  point on it, but someone who puts up a video titled "Nazi Germany - A Creation of the Vatican and Jesuits" is a crank.
 

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orthodoxlurker said:
Silly me.

Here is the film about pooling the golden teeth out. By Ustashe. From the victims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related

Part from 1:27 to 2:00

Of course, expecting from Veniamint to produce a comment after this would be yet another silliness on my part.
Why should we expect any truth in your video when you can't be honest in your profile text (abstaining from oc.net and all that)?

Oh, there's also no "t" in my name; I'm not a chewing gum.
 

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Veniamin said:
orthodoxlurker said:
Silly me.

Here is the film about pooling the golden teeth out. By Ustashe. From the victims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related

Part from 1:27 to 2:00

Of course, expecting from Veniamint to produce a comment after this would be yet another silliness on my part.
Why should we expect any truth in your video when you can't be honest in your profile text (abstaining from oc.net and all that)?

Oh, there's also no "t" in my name; I'm not a chewing gum.
Regarding my presence here, I'm exercising a method of spiritual growth in severe and harsh environment, in the hope I'll manage to succeed.

You'll write anything but to address the content of video, which, btw, isn't mine. I've come across to it incidentally. Neither are the stupidities of the person whom placed the video on youtube mine.

It's crafted from excerpts of Ustasha's very own footage.

There are golden teeth featured, from 1:27 to 2:00 there, something you described as "half baked conspiracy". Of course, you wouldn't address that, would you?
 

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orthodoxlurker said:
Regarding my presence here, I'm exercising a method of spiritual growth in severe and harsh environment, in the hope I'll manage to succeed.
Spiritual growth by continuing to trumpet a bitterness antithetical to life in Christ?  How does your continued preaching of Serbian nationalism and Ustashe atrocities against your people have anything to do with the REAL Gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ?

You'll write anything but to address the content of video, which, btw, isn't mine. I've come across to it incidentally. Neither are the stupidities of the person whom placed the video on youtube mine.
But when you present this video as evidence to support your message, you kinda adopt as your own the stupidities of the person who published the video.  IOW, it's rather stupid to use a stupid video to bolster your claims.

It's crafted from excerpts of Ustasha's very own footage.

There are golden teeth featured, from 1:27 to 2:00 there, something you described as "half baked conspiracy". Of course, you wouldn't address that, would you?
Again, when you use a youtube video as evidence of your thesis and expect us to address the content of the video, then questions of the credibility of the video based on the believability of the video's submitter become very important to our analysis of the content.  If the person who posted the video on youtube is a crank, then why should we trust as authoritative history anything that's presented in the video?  What is he NOT telling us?  This you won't see in the video because he doesn't want us to know what he's not telling us.  Yet what the submitter is NOT telling us is probably just as important, if not moreso, as what he IS telling us.
 

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Orthodoxlurker,
Before you respond any further, I'd just like to point out a few things to you:

1) Nobody on OCnet is stating that the atrocities against the Serbs by the Ustashi didn't happen.

2) Nobody on OCnet is stating that the Roman Catholic Church was not complicit in these atrocities against the Serbs by the Ustashi.

PeterTheAleut said:
Again, when you use a youtube video as evidence of your thesis and expect us to address the content of the video, then questions of the credibility of the video based on the believability of the video's submitter become very important to our analysis of the content.  If the person who posted the video on youtube is a crank, then why should we trust as authoritative history anything that's presented in the video?  What is he NOT telling us?  This you won't see in the video because he doesn't want us to know what he's not telling us.  Yet what the submitter is NOT telling us is probably just as important, if not moreso, as what he IS telling us.
Peter,
This was probably the most grammatically complex paragraph I have ever read, and I'm still trying to get my head around it!
One thing I will say though is that I just watched the video orthodoxlurker posted a link to and it appears to be a compilation of video footage of the Ustashi atrocities which I have seen before. The Ustashi were inhuman, I would say demonic, in their treatment of the Serbs, and stupidly recorded their own atrocities on film. I have seen footage of Ustashi smiling for the camera as they beheaded a Serb. I have seen photographs of Ustashi holding a bowl ready to collect the blood of a Serb victim into whose face they are about to drive a sharpened stake. It happened. It was an attempt at genocide, but it was not "sanitized"- these demonic beings actually revelled in torturing their victims.
 

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Keble said:
Not to put too fine  point on it, but someone who puts up a video titled "Nazi Germany - A Creation of the Vatican and Jesuits" is a crank.
There is no such a title in the video to which I posted the link. The title of it reads "Catholic Inquisition in Jasenovac". See:



That's 1:56 of the video, featuring the golden teeth, pulled out from the victims, the footage of which was captured by Ustashe themselves. Info about the golden teeth, having been pulled out by Ustashe, has been branded here as "half-baked conspiracy".
 

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orthodoxlurker said:
Info about the golden teeth, having been pulled out by Ustashe, has been branded here as "half-baked conspiracy".
Nobody has said that this is a half-baked conspiracy, you just think they have.
 

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ozgeorge said:
Nobody has said that this is a half-baked conspiracy, you just think they have.
orthodoxlurker said:
Veniamin said:
So because no one takes your half-baked conspiracies seriously, we should ban you from participating? 
Silly me.

Here is the film about pooling the golden teeth out. By Ustashe. From the victims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE06Rg6I_co&feature=related

Part from 1:27 to 2:00

Of course, expecting from Veniamint to produce a comment after this would be yet another silliness on my part.
 

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Does anyone honestly expect a balanced response from orthodoxlurker with regard to his belligerent stance against the Roman Catholic church? His signature line is Τον Πάπα να καταράσθε διότι αυτός θα είναι η αιτία του κακού, derived from a pronouncement by St Kosmas Aitolos. Translation:Lay curses on the Pope, as he shall be the cause of evil.

It is disgraceful to use the words of a saint to promote and justify one's political/religious ideologies.
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
You'll write anything but to address the content of video, which, btw, isn't mine. I've come across to it incidentally. Neither are the stupidities of the person whom placed the video on youtube mine.
But when you present this video as evidence to support your message, you kinda adopt as your own the stupidities of the person who published the video.  IOW, it's rather stupid to use a stupid video to bolster your claims.
Just to underline.

BTW, I've never said the video is stupid. It's precious. I don't know if youtube publisher did some stupidities in his life, but publishing this video isn't among them.
 

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ozgeorge said:
Peter,
This was probably the most grammatically complex paragraph I have ever read, and I'm still trying to get my head around it!
Sorry.  I have a way of doing that sometimes, though I had no conscious intent to do so. :-[  (Even so, I do find some perverse glee in knowing that I stumped even you with one of my posts. ;D)  In an attempt to make myself more clear, I will summarize by saying that, within the context of this discussion, the believability of him who posted the video on youtube IS important to a critique of the video's content.

One thing I will say though is that I just watched the video orthodoxlurker posted a link to and it appears to be a compilation of video footage of the Ustashi atrocities which I have seen before. The Ustashi were inhuman, I would say demonic, in their treatment of the Serbs, and stupidly recorded their own atrocities on film. I have seen footage of Ustashi smiling for the camera as they beheaded a Serb. I have seen photographs of Ustashi holding a bowl ready to collect the blood of a Serb victim into whose face they are about to drive a sharpened stake. It happened. It was an attempt at genocide, but it was not "sanitized"- these demonic beings actually revelled in torturing their victims.
I can see this lending credibility to the video's content.  Now, as to whether this bolsters orthodoxlurker's assertions on this thread, that's a different story.
 

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LBK said:
It is disgraceful to use the words of a saint to promote and justify one's political/religious ideologies.
How many more circumstances are there, according to you, when quoting a Saint is disgraceful?

BTW, I'm not that crazy to promote or justify anything here.

 

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ozgeorge said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Peter,
This was probably the most grammatically complex paragraph I have ever read, and I'm still trying to get my head around it!
That's just his method to follow my posts being of the merit with "clever expression of his thoughts" that will puzzle reader and pull the discussion in other direction. That's called troll.
 

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orthodoxlurker said:
PeterTheAleut said:
You'll write anything but to address the content of video, which, btw, isn't mine. I've come across to it incidentally. Neither are the stupidities of the person whom placed the video on youtube mine.
But when you present this video as evidence to support your message, you kinda adopt as your own the stupidities of the person who published the video.  IOW, it's rather stupid to use a stupid video to bolster your claims.
Just to underline.

BTW, I've never said the video is stupid.
Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency in my logic--and I'm not speaking sarcastically.  You're right to say that the stupidities of the person who submitted the video don't necessarily make the video itself stupid.  I should have separated the two in the paragraph you quoted.

It's precious. I don't know if youtube publisher did some stupidities in his life, but publishing this video isn't among them.
I still don't understand, though, why you continue to proclaim that the Ustashe pulled gold teeth out of the heads of your people and handed the wealth over to line the Vatican coffers.  I don't deny that it happened, and I don't deny that the Ustashe perpetrated some of the most heinous of atrocities possible against your people.  My question is what you hope to accomplish by preaching this whenever you have the chance.  How does the bitterness and rage I see in your posts on this thread do anything to bring others to salvation in Jesus Christ?  Do you want us to validate your suffering by dragging us into your cesspool of self-victimization?
 

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orthodoxlurker said:
ozgeorge said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Peter,
This was probably the most grammatically complex paragraph I have ever read, and I'm still trying to get my head around it!
That's just his method to follow my posts being of the merit with "clever expression of his thoughts" that will puzzle reader and pull the discussion in other direction. That's called troll.
Nah.  You give me way too much credit. :-[
 
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