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Vatican official says Ireland referendum was "defeat for humanity"

Minnesotan

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A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.
 

Second Chance

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I agree with him.
 

LenInSebastopol

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So now we (US) are starting to swing back, if not weigh in!

http://orthodoxhouston.blogspot.com/2015/05/gay-marriage-and-houston-gay-rights.html?m=1
 

primuspilus

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LenInSebastopol said:
So now we (US) are starting to swing back, if not weigh in!

http://orthodoxhouston.blogspot.com/2015/05/gay-marriage-and-houston-gay-rights.html?m=1
Nobody outside of Orthodox who read the blog will even know about this. No offense, I know you mean well, but this means exactly zero.

PP
 

kurtismjohnson

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LenInSebastopol said:
So now we (US) are starting to swing back, if not weigh in!

http://orthodoxhouston.blogspot.com/2015/05/gay-marriage-and-houston-gay-rights.html?m=1
The bathroom thing is absolutely sickening, and pretty hard to even wrap ones head around. Ive heard there are other countries, like France i believe, that dont have gender separate bathrooms. (Can anyone confirm?) Always found it odd.

I cant imagine having a little girl going to a restroom at a restaurant or something and having a grown man follow her. Im sure the majority of folks will still use the appropriate restroom, but the few creeps who "still havent decided what gender they would like to be" will certainly make this into a headache, and stomach ache, for a lot of people.
 

LenInSebastopol

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primuspilus said:
LenInSebastopol said:
So now we (US) are starting to swing back, if not weigh in!

http://orthodoxhouston.blogspot.com/2015/05/gay-marriage-and-houston-gay-rights.html?m=1
Nobody outside of Orthodox who read the blog will even know about this. No offense, I know you mean well, but this means exactly zero.
PP
Probably true, however they are doing something, not just posting and I find hope + strength in that, even if they are just Texicans
 

primuspilus

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LenInSebastopol said:
primuspilus said:
LenInSebastopol said:
So now we (US) are starting to swing back, if not weigh in!

http://orthodoxhouston.blogspot.com/2015/05/gay-marriage-and-houston-gay-rights.html?m=1
Nobody outside of Orthodox who read the blog will even know about this. No offense, I know you mean well, but this means exactly zero.
PP
Probably true, however they are doing something, not just posting and I find hope + strength in that, even if they are just Texicans
Oh no, please don't misunderstand. Im not bashing their efforts, but Im saying that we as Orthodox do alot of pontificating and "standing up" using Orthodox blogs. The world (hell, most Orthodox for that matter) dont read these blogs. Basically, its a good effort, but we really need to start thinking outside of our collective boxes and get the message out. Most people dont know about Orthodoxy, let alone read Orthoblogs.

PP
 

Iconodule

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And if you want to get the message out, you may want to consider making that message an actual general preaching of the gospel instead of culture warrior antics. Our position on gay marriage and other current issues is pretty irrelevant if nobody knows what we actually stand for or what the point of being a Christian even is. The defensiveness about these particular issues is at best obsolete. We are not a hegemonic cultural force; we are an obscure, minority faith and we do the church no favors by joining our public voice with a decrepit Christendom that has allowed itself to be reduced in the public square to "those people who oppose gay marriage and abortion for whatever reason." Show people Christ before you show them the peculiar laws of Christian morality, which don't make much sense without him.
 

Fabio Leite

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Timon said:
LenInSebastopol said:
So now we (US) are starting to swing back, if not weigh in!

http://orthodoxhouston.blogspot.com/2015/05/gay-marriage-and-houston-gay-rights.html?m=1
The bathroom thing is absolutely sickening, and pretty hard to even wrap ones head around. Ive heard there are other countries, like France i believe, that dont have gender separate bathrooms. (Can anyone confirm?) Always found it odd.

I cant imagine having a little girl going to a restroom at a restaurant or something and having a grown man follow her. Im sure the majority of folks will still use the appropriate restroom, but the few creeps who "still havent decided what gender they would like to be" will certainly make this into a headache, and stomach ache, for a lot of people.
Something rather interesting happened down here regarding these "gender" issues and follow it closely because it *looks* like a joke but it really happened....

There is here a radical feminist congress where they only accept women, but "all kinds* of women, including "those" who had been born men. It's named "EME - Encontro das Mulheres Estudantes" (Student Women Meeting).

So, it's this meeting of radical college feminists. A bearded guy named Luis actually sneaked into the congress. Inside there, he shaved his beard, borrowed a skirt from one of the girls and declared he had found his true self as Helena, then Luísa and finally Heloísa.

Not only he discovered he was a "trans-woman", and therefore went to the toilet *and to the shower* with the other girls, but he found out that he was also... lesbian! And he immediatelly proceeded to hit on the girls in the congress and even managed to make out with *some*. On top of that his girlfriend was in the same congress.

To add to the whole situation, he started making out with the girl next to him in one of the discussion circles and some of the radicals started singing words of protest. He first laughed at them and then another group of radicals started accusing the first group of prejudice because, they claimed, he suffered more than anyone there for being both trans and lesbian at the same time.

The final remark of one of the leader of "anti-Heloísa" group, Moon Sophie, on her Facebook ramble was this:

"Fear is the weapon of the patriarchate. ONE man silencend 50 women, just ONE man to bully 50 women, most of whom were lesbians to the point we had to assemble into a group to request his expulsion from there, and 50 united women could not take ONE man from a feminist space. ONE man, put th life and safety of 1000 women at risk"
http://www.criticapolitica.org/2015/05/sensacional-trans-de-ocasiao-detona.html

Interestingly enough, said man has insisted on his new identity since then, proving that he was not just trolling, he had just simply fully bought into their discourse. He still wears skirts and identifies as Heloisa, the trans-lesbian male-born woman.

:)



 

LenInSebastopol

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Fabio, looks like you got your work cut out for you.
Consider that to be surrounded by the enemy is a joy, as you don't even need a dead cat to swing to hit any of them.
;D
 

Minnesotan

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"the enemy?"

Last time I checked, these are human beings, who in many cases it can actually be shown that the brain chemistry is different and that is why they feel the way they do. It's not just a choice or the result of "indoctrination" or whatever. It actually is physical and biological in origin. That doesn't mean it isn't an illness that we should be trying to find a cure for.

That's what bugs me about a lot of Christians; evangelicals especially. There's just no compassion and a whole lot of gleeful ridicule directed towards LGBT folks, that is very selective (I. e., not directed towards people who commit other types of sins).

I suspect that brain chemistry and brain waves might have something to do with why some people feel like the "wrong" gender, and could potentially provide a clue for how to rectify these feelings. It definitely is biological in origin, and not a "choice" like many evangelicals claim. That doesn't mean it isn't a sin (hamartia), but sin is "missing the mark", it's not just another word for disobedience. (This is where Orthodox hamartiology makes more sense than Western views on sin)

You don't admonish a person with scabies or the flu and yell at him that he needs to "repent", or call him a threat to society. You actually try to fix what is ailing him. It should be similar with how we treat people with abnormal sexualities and especially the transgender people.
 

LenInSebastopol

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Nor do I admonish people with broken arms or broken chemistry, be it in the brain, as in mental illness or other organs such as cancer.
No, the "enemy" are the ones that are pushing "an agenda" such as normalcy for deviancy or sin, as a "lifestyle". If I were to have active TB, coughing blood, sputum and night sweats, and demanded to work in public putting all at risk, the ones that would allow me to do so would be "the enemy" and not me, as I am not in my right mind with fever and sickness. Such policies are anathema, but that's what's going on: common sense ain't common no more.

Caution and discernment must be used (Wisdom, stand aright) in considering the origins of homosexuality.  As put, if biological in origin, the current push, then any backlash (and wait long enough, there will be one) will be terrible for those that are "gay". To be sure we will then have to stand and defend them against those that would do them harm. To throw "the cause" into the black box of genetics is as bad as the DSM IV, which threw the cause back into the black box of "psych".
Orthodoxy has the true answer for such a condition, as pointed out by Minnesotan, it is sin in the form of Lust.
 
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Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking 
 

LenInSebastopol

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Another loving and 'christain' POV?
Or is someone a bit perturbed at their sister church?
 

mike

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LenInSebastopol said:
Another loving and 'christain' POV?
In this thread, definitely not from you.

LenInSebastopol said:
Or is someone a bit perturbed at their sister church?
At what?
 

primuspilus

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converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.

PP
 

LenInSebastopol

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primuspilus said:
converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.
PP
Reads as if CV was one of those poor kids that the church let down, and hard!
Try and pray for him as there's a ton of anger.
 

Iconodule

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LenInSebastopol said:
primuspilus said:
converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.
PP
Reads as if CV was one of those poor kids that the church let down, and hard!
Try and pray for him as there's a ton of anger.
It's funny you say that, as you seem to be at war with reality itself.
 

LenInSebastopol

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Iconodule said:
LenInSebastopol said:
primuspilus said:
converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.
PP
Reads as if CV was one of those poor kids that the church let down, and hard!
Try and pray for him as there's a ton of anger.
It's funny you say that, as you seem to be at war with reality itself.
Yes, it does seem so as you are right.
Not only that, I war with God Himself as well far to often.
Any particular reality you speak of, or is it generic in flavor?
 

Fabio Leite

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On related news:

Becoming disabled by choice, not chance: ‘Transabled’ people feel like impostors in their fully working bodies

OTTAWA — When he cut off his right arm with a “very sharp power tool,” a man who now calls himself One Hand Jason let everyone believe it was an accident.

But he had for months tried different means of cutting and crushing the limb that never quite felt like his own, training himself on first aid so he wouldn’t bleed to death, even practicing on animal parts sourced from a butcher.

“My goal was to get the job done with no hope of reconstruction or re-attachment, and I wanted some method that I could actually bring myself to do,” he told the body modification website ModBlog.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

 
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primuspilus said:
converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.

PP
Check out my new avatar.  A picture is worth a more that a 1000 words.

Viking
 
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LenInSebastopol said:
primuspilus said:
converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.
PP
Reads as if CV was one of those poor kids that the church let down, and hard!
Try and pray for him as there's a ton of anger.
Not as hard as others. 

Viking
 

LenInSebastopol

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converted viking said:
LenInSebastopol said:
primuspilus said:
converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.
PP
Reads as if CV was one of those poor kids that the church let down, and hard!
Try and pray for him as there's a ton of anger.
Not as hard as others. 
Viking
Then it's a blessing that you do not have to deal with theirs and another one for having to deal with only yours.
 
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Thread locked pending review.  Way too much polemic and sniping here.

Remember, folks, report, don't respond in kind.

Yurysprudentsiya
 
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LenInSebastopol said:
primuspilus said:
converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Tell us how you really feel.
PP
Reads as if CV was one of those poor kids that the church let down, and hard!
Try and pray for him as there's a ton of anger.
Len:

I don't know what you meant by this but it could be taken as a polemic and/or a personal attack.  Not appropriate for Christian News.

Please don't do this again.

Yurysprudentsiya
 
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converted viking said:
Minnesotan said:
A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland, saying that the referendum that overwhelmingly passed last weekend in favour of marriage equality was a “defeat for humanity”.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.


More here.

Whatever.  The Roman Catholic Church has NO moral authority.  After their pope and other ecclesiastical authorities let the rape of innocents progress for 40 years while they where aware of it and covered it up.  They ought to just shut up! A pox on them !

Viking
Converted Viking:

This language is very close to, if not crossing the line into, polemic.  Please don't continue down this road. 

Yurysprudentsiya
 
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Thread unlocked.  No more polemic.  No more sniping.

Yurysprudentsiya
 

qawe

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Couldn't he have found a more ambiguous way to say that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEchg1KhmTY
 
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