• For users new and old: the forum rules were streamlined when we transitioned to the new software. Please ensure that you are familiar with them. Continued use of the forum means that you (a) know the rules, and (b) pledge that you'll abide by them. For more information, check out the OrthodoxChristianity.Net Rules section. (There are only 2 threads there - Rules, and Administrative Structure.)

Vatican policies allowed priests to rape children, UN report says

Pravoslavbob

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
3,712
Reaction score
20
Points
38
Location
Canada
"The Vatican "systematically" adopted policies that allowed priests to rape and molest tens of thousands of children over decades, a UN human rights committee said Wednesday, urging the Holy See to open its files on pedophiles and bishops who concealed their crimes."

See this link for the entire article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/vatican-policies-allowed-priests-to-rape-children-un-report-says-1.2523737
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,314
Reaction score
192
Points
63
Age
39
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
Whether or not the UN has a point re: the Vatican's handling of clerical sex abuse (and I'm not sure they do), some of the demands contained in the report are way over the top, including criticism of basic moral teachings common to all Christians.  This is not merely about protecting children for the UN.     
 

Pravoslavbob

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
3,712
Reaction score
20
Points
38
Location
Canada
Mor Ephrem said:
Whether or not the UN has a point re: the Vatican's handling of clerical sex abuse (and I'm not sure they do), some of the demands contained in the report are way over the top, including criticism of basic moral teachings common to all Christians.  This is not merely about protecting children for the UN.      
I do think that the UN has a point....but I also agree with you that they are pushing an agenda here.  But the Vatican might be doing the same thing, to a degree at least.
 

PeterTheAleut

Hypatos
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
37,280
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
49
Location
Portland, Oregon
Mor Ephrem said:
Whether or not the UN has a point re: the Vatican's handling of clerical sex abuse (and I'm not sure they do), some of the demands contained in the report are way over the top, including criticism of basic moral teachings common to all Christians.  This is not merely about protecting children for the UN.     
I saw the same news report. When I saw that the UN was using their criticism to blast the Vatican also for its stances on contraception, abortion, and homosexuality, I had to wonder what the UN's agenda really is.
 

Nephi

Protokentarchos
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
4,829
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Critically, the committee rejected the Vatican's longstanding argument that it doesn't control bishops or their abusive priests, saying the Holy See was responsible for implementing the treaty not just in the Vatican City State but around the world "as the supreme power of the Catholic Church through individuals and institutions placed under its authority."
Is it saying the Vatican has absolute and immediate control over every single sector of the Catholic Church, or that it should have that much? Either way, that sounds an awful lot like dictating ecclesiology to me, and treating it like, as someone later in the article says, "the HQ of a multinational corporation."

Reminds me of the 18th-19th century struggles over the place of the Catholic Church in the West with its newly emergent modern nation states and "spheres" of life.
 

Nephi

Protokentarchos
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
4,829
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
30
Mor Ephrem said:
Whether or not the UN has a point re: the Vatican's handling of clerical sex abuse (and I'm not sure they do), some of the demands contained in the report are way over the top, including criticism of basic moral teachings common to all Christians.  This is not merely about protecting children for the UN.
Agreed.
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,314
Reaction score
192
Points
63
Age
39
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
What is the Vatican's agenda in this case?  

If the UN was criticising something going on within the borders of Vatican City, I could understand it.  But they are basically taking advantage of the Holy See's membership in the UN (is the Holy See even a voting member?) to try and dictate the policies of an international religion.    
 

Pravoslavbob

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
3,712
Reaction score
20
Points
38
Location
Canada
Mor Ephrem said:
What is the Vatican's agenda in this case?      
I'm not completely sure.  Was it wise or accurate of the Vatican UN ambassador to claim that the UN is "allowing itself to be swayed by pro-gay idealogues"?  I suppose this might be an accurate statement, or it might be a very reactionary and inaccurate portrayal of things.  Even if it is an accurate assessment, it seems to me that the ambassador should have chosen his words more carefully, since to "reasonable" secular Westerners they are bound to be viewed as extremist.


Mor Ephrem said:
If the UN was criticising something going on within the borders of Vatican City, I could understand it.
But they are basically taking advantage of the Holy See's membership in the UN (is the Holy See even a voting member?) to try and dictate the policies of an international religion.    
FWIW, I think this has been the Vatican's own argument about this issue for the past couple of months, and the U.N. isn't buying it.  If I am wrong about this, I hope someone corrects me.
 

Adela

OC.Net Guru
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
0
Points
0
The priest abuse scandal was/is despicable and it needs to be brought to the light of day and people held accountable.  But I find it odd the UN ignores their own issue with pedophilia. So many UN people have been going into 3rd world countries, such as Africa, and making starving children trade sexual favors for food. I'd hate to think the main agenda is to lessen the Roman Catholic church's power and influence rather than to protect children.
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,314
Reaction score
192
Points
63
Age
39
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
Pravoslavbob said:
I'm not completely sure.  Was it wise or accurate of the Vatican UN ambassador to claim that the UN is "allowing itself to be swayed by pro-gay idealogues"?  I suppose this might be an accurate statement, or it might be a very reactionary and inaccurate portrayal of things.  Even if it is an accurate assessment, it seems to me that the ambassador should have chosen his words more carefully, since to "reasonable" secular Westerners they are bound to be viewed as extremist.
Honestly, I think the definition of "reasonable" is up for debate nowadays.  I think the Vatican ambassador could've limited himself to detailing initiatives already taken to address the problem and omitted all reference to "pro-gay ideologues", and "reasonable" secular Westerners would've pounced on the RCC anyway.  In fact, that's what seems to have happened:

Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, head of the Holy See's delegation to the United Nations in Geneva, told Vatican Radio the report had failed to take into account the fact that the Vatican had made "a series of changes for the protection of children", and its efforts at reform were "fact, evidence, which cannot be distorted".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26044852
But they did find the time to criticise the Vatican's position on abortion, birth control, and homosexuality. 

FWIW, I think this has been the Vatican's own argument about this issue for the past couple of months, and the U.N. isn't buying it.  If I am wrong about this, I hope someone corrects me.
The UN doesn't have to buy it.  The UN calls its own motives into question when it throws unrelated issues into the mix.  When people within the RCC point to the link between homosexuality and many cases of clerical sex abuse, "reasonable" secular Westerners don't want to hear any of it.  Perhaps they are right.  But if homosexuality has nothing to do with clerical sex abuse, why bring it up when it's a convenient talking point against the Vatican?  What do abortion and birth control have to do with this issue?  I'm surprised they didn't put anything in about women's ordination. 

These are all just elabourate cheap shots.  Rome isn't going to change its religious teachings or its canonical procedures because a paper tiger growled at them, and the UN will continue to carry on these sorts of attacks because "reasonable" secular Westerners will support them even if they are plainly hypocritical.   
 

WPM

Taxiarches
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
7,775
Reaction score
11
Points
0
Age
38
The political affairs of this report would be sent through the interim offices of Washington D.C. and White House press.

 

Fabio Leite

Protokentarchos
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
4,790
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Brazil
Website
vidaortodoxa.blogspot.com.br
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
I absolutely despise the idea that the UN has any moral authority.
Is it the same UN which not many years ago had "peace-keepers" trading food for sex with minors? I wonder how they are handling their own cases before pointing any fingers.

The United Nation’s “sex-for-food” scandal continues to spread. As the human rights group Save the Children documents in a new report, U.N. peacekeepers in the war-torn, refugee-rich Liberia have been accused of selling food for sex from girls as young as 8.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/may/9/20060509-090826-9806r/

Once again, United Nations troops were accused of sexual abuse of minors.
This time the troops were stationed in the Ivory Coast.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/09/once-again-un-troops-accused-of-sexually-abusing-minors/

United Nations peacekeepers in Ivory Coast enticed underage girls in a poor part of the West African nation to exchange sex for food, according to a United States Embassy cable released by WikiLeaks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/wikileaks-un-peacekeepers_n_944917.html
 

podkarpatska

Merarches
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
9,732
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Location
Northeast United States
Website
www.acrod.org
I rather doubt that the Russian, Ukrainian, Sebian, Bulgarian, Cypriot, Greek, Romanian, Chinese, Indonesian, Egyptian, Saudi, Turkish and other Muslim  countries and Indian pov were included in whomever was speaking for the "UN" on issues high on the agenda of western intelligentsia. Yawn.
 

yeshuaisiam

Protokentarchos
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
4,695
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
I absolutely despise the idea that the UN has any moral authority.
I absolutely 100% agree with you about the UN!

My opinion is that with the history of the RC church executing countless Christians and starting wars for Christ, it would not surprise me.  It's hard to read the word "policies" as if there was some written documents encouraging this (especially in more modern day).  There are stories of their footmen (encouraged by clergy or in front of clergy) stripping down young teen girls before drowning them, and also violating women in prison for rejecting the Catholic church, stripping down men, humiliating them, etc.  It doesn't surprise me that there could be policies that allow them to rape children.  But the UN saying so, the irony runs wild!
 

xOrthodox4Christx

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vatican tells UN committee 848 priests defrocked in past decade
In a second day of grilling by the UN, the Holy See released statistics on how many priests have been defrocked and disciplined over sex abuse in the past decade.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/05/06/vatican_tells_un_committee_848_priests_defrocked_in_past_decade.html
 

scamandrius

Merarches
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
9,377
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
44
Location
Omaha
xOrthodox4Christx said:
Vatican tells UN committee 848 priests defrocked in past decade
In a second day of grilling by the UN, the Holy See released statistics on how many priests have been defrocked and disciplined over sex abuse in the past decade.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/05/06/vatican_tells_un_committee_848_priests_defrocked_in_past_decade.html
Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI won't be getting an apology letter any time soon, despite the fact that he was the one who put these actions into place to get rid of these shameful people from the priesthood.
 

Jonathan Gress

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
5,541
Reaction score
1
Points
0
The Holy See is an observing, non-voting member of the UN; Palestine is the other non-voting member. It is unique under international law in that it is recognized as a sovereign entity independent of the territory it controls, i.e. other states have diplomatic relations with the Holy See, not with the Vatican City.

If the Holy See wants to be treated as a sovereign state, I would think its moral teachings are open to criticism by the UN insofar as they affect their administrative policies in the real world. That doesn't mean they should have to conform to the UN's diktats.

Has the UN criticized the moral teachings of other religions?
 

Second Chance

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
8,025
Reaction score
1
Points
36
Age
75
Location
South Carolina
The UN has no credibility on most matters; it has none whatsoever in matters related to human rights, torture or discrimination.
 

Jonathan Gress

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
5,541
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) said:
The UN has no credibility on most matters; it has none whatsoever in matters related to human rights, torture or discrimination.
I generally agree with you, but I find it interesting that people who might otherwise give the UN no credibility are happy to appeal to its authority when it suits their pet cause, e.g. pro-Palestinians who use UN resolutions to justify their position vis-a-vis Israel.
 

WPM

Taxiarches
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
7,775
Reaction score
11
Points
0
Age
38
I kind of need to see proof because the OP is just a parrot of a news source.
 
Top