Very controversial, Orthodox Freemasons

yeshuaisiam

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88Devin12 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
yeshuaisiam said:
As far as world domination and all that goes, I believe there is some truth behind it (eastern star in the streets right above white house - google maps zip code 20500 and go to satellite only without labels), however, this does NOT involve a common city lodge.  
...that's just freaky!

Must simply be a coincidence...don't you think?
No, the planner for Washington D.C. was a French Freemason. Washington D.C. was planned out way back in in the last 1700s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Enfant_Plan
It was a popular concept for the day, where you would create main avenues between major plazas, monuments, etc... The same was done in Paris, where they destroyed many blocks to create main avenues in geometric patterns radiating around the city.

So its probably the product of planning and layout of streets, and could very well have been intentional considering the masonic connections between the President and Planner. (Washington and L'Enfant, though L'Enfant didn't go high into masonry)

People take something as simple as that and try to make it into something more than it is. Sure, it probably has masonic significance and connections, but that doesn't symbolize world domination at all.
I don't agree with your statement entirely.

Not the fact of origin, but the lack of attributing the significance of the outrageousness of it.  It's a PENTAGRAM, the bottom tip is EXACTLY where the white house is.  It's 4-5 square miles.

Of course if you research how many presidents were Freemasons or Skull & Bones (Offshoot of masons) it pretty much suggests that they are in power.

Now, with that said, combine that with the freemason book calling Lucifer God, and you have Lucifer worshippers who put pentagrams on our nation's capital in the streets, and become our presidents. 

Couple that with some of our nations "prized" monuments are masonic & luciferic, such as the Washington Monument, and the Statue of Liberty (gift from French Freemasons) which represents the God of the Sun (Colossus/Ra/Light Bearer/Lucifer).  A plaque exists on the Statue of Liberty as a dedication from the Masons.

Now with that said, seems like they certainly are dominating the world being in such positions of power.... 

But this is besides the point of focusing on the Orthodox Clergy being involved with them. I don't understand why things get so digressed here?
 

88Devin12

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yeshuaisiam said:
88Devin12 said:
LizaSymonenko said:
yeshuaisiam said:
As far as world domination and all that goes, I believe there is some truth behind it (eastern star in the streets right above white house - google maps zip code 20500 and go to satellite only without labels), however, this does NOT involve a common city lodge.  
...that's just freaky!

Must simply be a coincidence...don't you think?
No, the planner for Washington D.C. was a French Freemason. Washington D.C. was planned out way back in in the last 1700s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Enfant_Plan
It was a popular concept for the day, where you would create main avenues between major plazas, monuments, etc... The same was done in Paris, where they destroyed many blocks to create main avenues in geometric patterns radiating around the city.

So its probably the product of planning and layout of streets, and could very well have been intentional considering the masonic connections between the President and Planner. (Washington and L'Enfant, though L'Enfant didn't go high into masonry)

People take something as simple as that and try to make it into something more than it is. Sure, it probably has masonic significance and connections, but that doesn't symbolize world domination at all.
I don't agree with your statement entirely.

Not the fact of origin, but the lack of attributing the significance of the outrageousness of it.   It's a PENTAGRAM, the bottom tip is EXACTLY where the white house is.   It's 4-5 square miles.

Of course if you research how many presidents were Freemasons or Skull & Bones (Offshoot of masons) it pretty much suggests that they are in power.

Now, with that said, combine that with the freemason book calling Lucifer God, and you have Lucifer worshippers who put pentagrams on our nation's capital in the streets, and become our presidents.   

Couple that with some of our nations "prized" monuments are masonic & luciferic, such as the Washington Monument, and the Statue of Liberty (gift from French Freemasons) which represents the God of the Sun (Colossus/Ra/Light Bearer/Lucifer).   A plaque exists on the Statue of Liberty as a dedication from the Masons.

Now with that said, seems like they certainly are dominating the world being in such positions of power.... 

But this is besides the point of focusing on the Orthodox Clergy being involved with them. I don't understand why things get so digressed here?
You clearly have not been reading from reliable sources. The pentagram, or eastern star wasn't used by Satanists and Neo-Pagans until well after it was in use by many world faiths (including Christianity) as well as Freemasons...

In fact, the upside down pentagram didn't have real negative connotations until Satanist began using it, well after the Masons were already using it...

As I said before, you need to stop reading these conspiracy theory websites and you especially need to stop trusting websites of Old Believers.
 

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yeshuaisiam said:
88Devin12 said:
yeshuaisiam said:
88Devin12 said:
yeshuaisiam said:
Sauron,

Here is a documentary (part one) on youtube about Masonry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miW-89BDzLA&feature=related

The other parts on on the right in youtube.  It explains what is going on.  Believe it or not, the documentary is VERY gentle on the masons.

Many masons are not aware of what Masonry is, so don't feel bad. Most think more or less its like a fraternity.   So I'm absolutely not thumbing my nose at you or anything.

I'm humbly asking you as a brother in Christ, to research these things.  Check out freemasonrywatch.org .  Watch some documentaries on the masons.  You won't see many documentaries against regular fraternities (other than angry moms LOL), but you do behind the masons because there is so much more.   It's a very deep & powerful organization.  At the grassroots & town level, it appears as a fraternity to most.

God Bless.
Who really cares what a video on YouTube says? Besides, many people don't realize that freemasonry in the United States IS a fraternal organization. Sure, in Europe it was probably a little cultish and insane, but in the United States, in many places, it has become little more than a fraternal organization.

I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to act like its all a big conspiracy, or its one big, giant cult.
Well, there are a lot of people who would take the credibility of people who say they are former masons showing what it is about.  Also, I posted excerpts from one of their most PRIZED books "Morals and Dogma" proclaiming LUCIFER to be GOD!   Should we brush that off as well?

What about the links in former posts I gave about the scouts?  Were those ignored?  What more can one say if their own prized texts proclaim Lucifer to be God?
I've seen no RELIABLE source that talks about such. Don't get your ideas from websites and obscure books, get them from real scholarly sources. You're going to deceive yourself and mislead yourself if you simply take ideas from the internet. There is a lot of real insanity out there, especially masked as being supposedly reasonable and rational.

Even if you Google "Morals Dogma Pike Lucifer", you don't get a single reliable website.
Ehm, it's in the BOOK itself.  Lucifer is called God.  I have the book right here on my shelf with a sticky note in it.   Page 321 & 324.
That's one book, and not even an isbn number.
 

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yeshuaisiam said:
88Devin12 said:
yeshuaisiam said:
88Devin12 said:
yeshuaisiam said:
Sauron,

Here is a documentary (part one) on youtube about Masonry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miW-89BDzLA&feature=related

The other parts on on the right in youtube.  It explains what is going on.  Believe it or not, the documentary is VERY gentle on the masons.

Many masons are not aware of what Masonry is, so don't feel bad. Most think more or less its like a fraternity.   So I'm absolutely not thumbing my nose at you or anything.

I'm humbly asking you as a brother in Christ, to research these things.  Check out freemasonrywatch.org .  Watch some documentaries on the masons.  You won't see many documentaries against regular fraternities (other than angry moms LOL), but you do behind the masons because there is so much more.   It's a very deep & powerful organization.  At the grassroots & town level, it appears as a fraternity to most.

God Bless.
Who really cares what a video on YouTube says? Besides, many people don't realize that freemasonry in the United States IS a fraternal organization. Sure, in Europe it was probably a little cultish and insane, but in the United States, in many places, it has become little more than a fraternal organization.

I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to act like its all a big conspiracy, or its one big, giant cult.
Well, there are a lot of people who would take the credibility of people who say they are former masons showing what it is about.  Also, I posted excerpts from one of their most PRIZED books "Morals and Dogma" proclaiming LUCIFER to be GOD!   Should we brush that off as well?

What about the links in former posts I gave about the scouts?  Were those ignored?  What more can one say if their own prized texts proclaim Lucifer to be God?
I've seen no RELIABLE source that talks about such. Don't get your ideas from websites and obscure books, get them from real scholarly sources. You're going to deceive yourself and mislead yourself if you simply take ideas from the internet. There is a lot of real insanity out there, especially masked as being supposedly reasonable and rational.

Even if you Google "Morals Dogma Pike Lucifer", you don't get a single reliable website.
Ehm, it's in the BOOK itself.  Lucifer is called God.  I have the book right here on my shelf with a sticky note in it.   Page 321 & 324.
"It HAS to be true! I read it in a book/on the Internet." ::)
 

biro

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My aunt's boyfriend is in the Freemasons. I'm not sure I would join even if I could, but this guy seems pretty normal. He owns a paint store. Not a whiff of the Satanist about him.
 

primuspilus

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biro said:
My aunt's boyfriend is in the Freemasons. I'm not sure I would join even if I could, but this guy seems pretty normal. He owns a paint store. Not a whiff of the Satanist about him.
In a some-what defense of the premise....I have heard that degrees 1-3 are pretty normal (farmer john, and jack at the firehouse kind of guys). Its higher up that you get into the dirt.

Now whether thats true...well....

PP
 

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primuspilus said:
biro said:
My aunt's boyfriend is in the Freemasons. I'm not sure I would join even if I could, but this guy seems pretty normal. He owns a paint store. Not a whiff of the Satanist about him.
In a some-what defense of the premise....I have heard that degrees 1-3 are pretty normal (farmer john, and jack at the firehouse kind of guys). Its higher up that you get into the dirt.

Now whether thats true...well....

PP
No, I doubt it.  I believe a mason when he tells you the only thing secret is the handshake and password.  What fraternal organization doesn't have those to get into the chapter room for a meeting?  None that I know of. 
The only thing about higher degrees I have experienced in non-mason fraternal organizations is the ritual is just neater and each one you learn a lesson that ties in with the fraternities beliefs.  And the core belief is usually taught at the first degree. No secret there, you're told up front what the organization believes.  I doubt the masons are any different in that regard. 
 

LizaSymonenko

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My question still remains...what's the benefit of entering a "fraternal" organization in the first place?  What are the people trying to gain?
 

primuspilus

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LizaSymonenko said:
My question still remains...what's the benefit of entering a "fraternal" organization in the first place?  What are the people trying to gain?
networking contacts, political and business relationships, friends for their kids.....sounds alot like a seminar my former church gave on why you should come to church...... ::)

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I don't know, I saw National Treasure & enjoyed it but still never considered freemasonry. I even saw a ritual depicted in Peggy Sue Got Married (note that Nick Cage is in both movies) but that never affected me either. Oh well.
 

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LizaSymonenko said:
My question still remains...what's the benefit of entering a "fraternal" organization in the first place?  What are the people trying to gain?
With respect, I don't know if a woman can understand very well why men join fraternities.

After Liturgy next week, I will start grilling the members of the Philoptochos Society and make those women tell me exactly what they are trying to gain.
 

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username! said:
primuspilus said:
biro said:
My aunt's boyfriend is in the Freemasons. I'm not sure I would join even if I could, but this guy seems pretty normal. He owns a paint store. Not a whiff of the Satanist about him.
In a some-what defense of the premise....I have heard that degrees 1-3 are pretty normal (farmer john, and jack at the firehouse kind of guys). Its higher up that you get into the dirt.

Now whether thats true...well....

PP
No, I doubt it.  I believe a mason when he tells you the only thing secret is the handshake and password.  What fraternal organization doesn't have those to get into the chapter room for a meeting?  None that I know of.  
The only thing about higher degrees I have experienced in non-mason fraternal organizations is the ritual is just neater and each one you learn a lesson that ties in with the fraternities beliefs.  And the core belief is usually taught at the first degree. No secret there, you're told up front what the organization believes.  I doubt the masons are any different in that regard.  
The non-Blue Lodges degrees are not considered "higher". They are considered lateral.

And, some high degrees! Here is how to get your 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite: watch a bunch of short plays over the course of a weekend. Presto! You now have your 32nd degree. I showed up on Saturday morning as a 3d degree and left the next day as a 32nd degree.
 

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My brother (not Orthodox) joined the Freemasons and the Shriners, we tried to convince him not to but what can you do when he's married and on his own right? lol

He wanted something to belong to and the Masons & Shriners gave him that. Of course, not that I agree with it, but he's happy...

You can ask, why do women join Sororities in College? It isn't always about alcohol, in fact I think women join sororities more for the "sisterhood" aspect than alcohol, whereas men probably join fraternities more for the parties than the "brotherhood".

Heck my dad was a member of the Lion's Club (not masonic btw) for years. Its something for men to belong to.

Of course, this is all in the United States, it may be different in Europe.
 

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Sauron, your faith says: "Catholic- Latin Rite". How did you get around the Papal ban of Freemasonary? Why not join the Knights of Columbus instead?
 

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The non-Blue Lodges degrees are not considered "higher". They are considered lateral.

And, some high degrees! Here is how to get your 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite: watch a bunch of short plays over the course of a weekend. Presto! You now have your 32nd degree. I showed up on Saturday morning as a 3d degree and left the next day as a 32nd degree
I do have a question for you Sauron. What do you make of Albert Pike? He's said some pretty outlandish things (Luciferian things if I recall) and he was pretty high up.

PP
 

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primuspilus said:
The non-Blue Lodges degrees are not considered "higher". They are considered lateral.

And, some high degrees! Here is how to get your 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite: watch a bunch of short plays over the course of a weekend. Presto! You now have your 32nd degree. I showed up on Saturday morning as a 3d degree and left the next day as a 32nd degree
I do have a question for you Sauron. What do you make of Albert Pike? He's said some pretty outlandish things (Luciferian things if I recall) and he was pretty high up.

PP
What if you had a "high up" Freemason that was Muslim and started referring to God as Allah and Jesus as only a Prophet? Freemasonry isn't meant to slant to any specific religion, its "ecumenical". So if someone really was "Satanic", they could theoretically still be a Freemason, it doesn't mean that one person reflects all Freemasonry, not matter how high up they've made it.

Of course, that is one of our church's problems with freemasonry, is that it is too ecumenical and treats all deist religions as potentially valid.

That is what I've tried to explain to my brother. He tried to explain to us that he isn't changing his Christian faith and the Masons weren't changing it, that they are open to all faiths. Yet I tried to explain that was one of the problems, that it is a bit too open, and the "prayers" or statements are too vague.
 

primuspilus

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88Devin12 said:
primuspilus said:
The non-Blue Lodges degrees are not considered "higher". They are considered lateral.

And, some high degrees! Here is how to get your 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite: watch a bunch of short plays over the course of a weekend. Presto! You now have your 32nd degree. I showed up on Saturday morning as a 3d degree and left the next day as a 32nd degree
I do have a question for you Sauron. What do you make of Albert Pike? He's said some pretty outlandish things (Luciferian things if I recall) and he was pretty high up.

PP
What if you had a "high up" Freemason that was Muslim and started referring to God as Allah and Jesus as only a Prophet? Freemasonry isn't meant to slant to any specific religion, its "ecumenical". So if someone really was "Satanic", they could theoretically still be a Freemason, it doesn't mean that one person reflects all Freemasonry, not matter how high up they've made it.

Of course, that is one of our church's problems with freemasonry, is that it is too ecumenical and treats all deist religions as potentially valid.

That is what I've tried to explain to my brother. He tried to explain to us that he isn't changing his Christian faith and the Masons weren't changing it, that they are open to all faiths. Yet I tried to explain that was one of the problems, that it is a bit too open, and the "prayers" or statements are too vague.
No, it is ont the same thing. Pike spoke specifically about Luciferianism and Masonry. Also about Atlantis and Masonry. He tried to join the two. What he said was never publically disavowed by the order.

I'm not saying that it IS that way, but anyone who is a mason would at least have to address this eventually.

PP

 

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First of all, what is with so many people having St. Patrick for their avatar?

Second, as I have studied masonry and know many masons I can attest that no one person can speak for the whole organization, so even if Pike was pushing a Luciferian agenda he wasn't pushing it for the whole of Freemasonry.

Third, it is very obvious that Pike is talking about how the devil should not be called Lucifer as Lucifer means light bringer and the devil brings darkness. pike pushes for changing Lucifer bck to its original meaning and the the "god" of freemasonry brings light and therefore is Lucifer in the strictest sense going purely by the strict meaning.

Fourth, Morals and Dogma is not a Freemason hand book, but a Scottish rite hand book, but even then it doesnt speak for the whole of the scottish rite.
 

primuspilus

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First of all, what is with so many people having St. Patrick for their avatar?
As I said before, I deeply respect St. Patrick, but I am also passively protesting something that I'd rather not discuss in open conversation out of respect for the admins.

pike pushes for changing Lucifer bck to its original meaning and the the "god" of freemasonry brings light and therefore is Lucifer in the strictest sense going purely by the strict meaning
So why Lucifer? Why not Helios or Mithras?

Fourth, Morals and Dogma is not a Freemason hand book, but a Scottish rite hand book, but even then it doesnt speak for the whole of the scottish rite
But why would the Scottish Rite masons allow it to go on being published if they were against it?

I know that if a guy published something stating that the Lions Club worshipped the head of an actual lion, the ink would not dry on that publication before the Lions Club had something to say about it.

PP
 
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