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What are the earliest liturgies and rites?

rakovsky

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The East Syrian Rite?
The Chaldean rite originally grew out of the Jerusalem–Antioch liturgy.. The tradition, resting on the legend of Abgar and of his correspondence with Christ, which has been shown to be apocryphal — is to the effect that St. Thomas the Apostle, on his way to India, established Christianity in Mesopotamia, Assyria, and Persia, and left Thaddeus of Edessa (or Addai), "one of the Seventy", and Saint Mari in charge there. The liturgy of the Church of the East is attributed to these two,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Syrian_Rite

How does the Maronite Church's liturgy compare in its ancientness? I read it uses the Antiochene rite.

Liturgy of St James
The Liturgy of Saint James or Jacobite Liturgy is the oldest complete form of the Eastern varieties of the Divine Liturgy still in use among certain Christian Churches.

It is based on the traditions of the ancient rite of the Early Christian Church of Jerusalem, as the Mystagogic Catecheses of St Cyril of Jerusalem imply.
... most authorities propose a fourth-century date for the known form, because the anaphora seems to have been developed from an ancient Egyptian form of the Basilean anaphoric family united with the anaphora described in The Catechisms of St. Cyril of Jerusalem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Liturgy_of_Saint_James

The Armenian rite?
The liturgy is patterned after the directives of Saint Gregory the Illuminator, founder and patron saint of The Armenian Church. Unlike the Byzantine Church, churches of the Armenian rite are usually devoid of icons and have a curtain concealing the priest and the altar from the people during parts of the liturgy, an influence from early apostolic times. The use of bishop's mitre and of unleavened bread, is reminiscent of the influence Western missionaries once had upon both the miaphysite Orthodox Armenians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Rite

St. Mark's liturgy?
The Divine Liturgy of St. Mark was at one time the primary worship service of the Orthodox Church of Alexandria. The oldest extant copy of this liturgy dates from the fourth century.

This liturgy is currently served annually on the feast day of the Apostle Mark at Holy Trinity Monastery (Jordanville, New York) of the (Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia) and at Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology (Brookline, Massachusetts).
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Liturgy_of_St._Mark

The Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles?
The Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles is an ancient anaphora (from Gr. αναφορά, i.e. offering to God) of the Antiochene Rite, seen by some scholars as a precursor to the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. It is still used in the Syriac Orthodox Church. Scholarly research suggests that, together with the Liturgy of St. James, and the Liturgy of St. Mark, this is one of the most ancient liturgical texts.
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Anaphora_of_the_Twelve_Apostles
 

RaphaCam

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Maronites are heavily Latinised, they even seem to have absorbed some of the New Mass spirit (at least in the diaspora), so if you want to know about the West Syrian rite, you'd better look at the other Syriac uses. I'm not sure why you included the Armenian rite. St. Mark's liturgy as done today is probably heavily Byzantinised, and, as St. James's and the Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles, it's not a rite.

So I'll go with East Syrian.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
What do "earliest", "liturgies", and "rites" mean here?
"Earliest" is the most important word to define here. As similar as the current East Syrian rite probably is today to the form it was celebrated by Mar Babai, it's surely not the same. And we can possibly, on the other extreme, find actual similarities between the rite practiced by the first Christians of Heraclea and the current Byzantine rite... Why not? In terms of continuity, aren't all rites as old as each other, all deriving ultimately from the liturgy of the first Christians (which from what I've read mixed synagogue rites with pieces of the Sunday meetings like the Eucharist) being reformed again and again? These are actual questions, maybe the actual history didn't go on as I'm supposing.
 

rakovsky

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These all have major 1st century apostolic centers with rites lasting to our times:

Rome,
Antioch,
Jerusalem
Greece
Egypt
Edessa/The East Syrians/Church of the East


Jerusalem's liturgy today seems to be basically either the Syriac or Greek rites.

Other centers of Christianity in apostolic times with their own rites could include:
Lebanon
Armenia
India
Ethiopia
Bulgaria
Romania
Serbia/Illyria
Spain
England


I wonder how many of these have rites and services not found in the Churches' rites that I included in the first list.

 

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It could be really interesting to include some arrows in one of these maps. Who would tell, for instance, that Iberian Christianity was until a certain point essentially Byzantine?

Also, I really doubt you could have any idea about the rites of most places you've mentioned, unfortunately... Personally, I'm specially curious about the reconstruction of the Hispanic rite, at least how it was celebrated in Southern Spain before Trent, but also how it was celebrated in the rest of the Iberian peninsula. It's still celebrated occasionally, but it's always heavily Romanised to a certain extent. I heard they'll even make it versus populum and with Gregorian chant nowadays. Since there are Old Calendarists doing it, I'd be curious to know more about the reconstruction process.

A comparison with the Braga rite, of which I know absolutely nothing yet, would also be interesting. A handful RC's in Northern Portugal still practice it, but it was extensively reformed. Wikipedia talks about Orthodox Christians that still practice it, but they link it to the page of the Orthodox under Metropolitan John of Lisbon, whom I'm pretty sure to celebrate the Byzantine rite.
 

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RaphaCam said:
It could be really interesting to include some arrows in one of these maps. Who would tell, for instance, that Iberian Christianity was until a certain point essentially Byzantine?

Also, I really doubt you could have any idea about the rites of most places you've mentioned, unfortunately... Personally, I'm specially curious about the reconstruction of the Hispanic rite, at least how it was celebrated in Southern Spain before Trent, but also how it was celebrated in the rest of the Iberian peninsula. It's still celebrated occasionally, but it's always heavily Romanised to a certain extent. I heard they'll even make it versus populum and with Gregorian chant nowadays. Since there are Old Calendarists doing it, I'd be curious to know more about the reconstruction process.

A comparison with the Braga rite, of which I know absolutely nothing yet, would also be interesting. A handful RC's in Northern Portugal still practice it, but it was extensively reformed. Wikipedia talks about Orthodox Christians that still practice it, but they link it to the page of the Orthodox under Metropolitan John of Lisbon, whom I'm pretty sure to celebrate the Byzantine rite.
The Rite of Braga is very similiar to the old Tridentine Rite, much less ancient than the Mozarabic Rite (which could possibly be the oldest recension of a liturgy still in use; the ofher might be the pre-1980 version of the Carthusian Rite still in use in a minority of Charterhouses).  The Maronite and West Syriac Rites are of equivalent age, but the Maronite Rite was Latinized beyond belief, and then de-Latinized by taking the current Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic liturgical texts and simplyifting them, or should I say, watering them down.
 

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Thanks for the input. Also, just making it clear, when I said "I really doubt you could have any idea" above, I meant "one could havee any idea", not only rakovsky.  :p

Do you know when these recensions you mentioned were made exactly?
 

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RaphaCam said:
Thanks for the input. Also, just making it clear, when I said "I really doubt you could have any idea" above, I meant "one could havee any idea", not only rakovsky.  :p

Do you know when these recensions you mentioned were made exactly?
I read that the Mozarabic Rite applies to Visigothic Spain (5th-8th c.).
There is a church in NYC IIRC that celebrates the Mozarabic.
 

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Maybe it did, the Visigoths tried to be as Byzantine as they could, so this would explain the Easternness of the rite.  :laugh:  But Visigoths often persecuted Orthodox Christians until the late VI century (see the martyrdom of St. Hermenegild, son of the last Arian King of the Visigoths).
 

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Regarding the Maronites:


Maronite Church in Galilee


wgw said:
The Maronite and West Syriac Rites are of equivalent age, but the Maronite Rite was Latinized beyond belief, and then de-Latinized by taking the current Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic liturgical texts and simplyifting them, or should I say, watering them down.
So we are looking at what range of percent overlap (eg. 5 percent to 10?) with the original 6th c. Maronite service, to make a guess?

There are different claims about how old the Maronite rite is, but I am sure like you are saying that there was major Latinization.


[6th c. Rabbula gospel illustration]

Aramaic is still used by the Maronites in various hymns and parts of the Mass, especially at the Consecration.... Many of the prayers are also derived from the writings of ancient Fathers of the East, especially Saint Ephrem (d. 373), who was declared a doctor of the Universal Church by Pope Benedict XV. His many hymns, rich in poetic expression and typologies from the Scriptures, form the basis for many of the prayers still in use today. ...

Shortly after the time of the Apostles, while abiding by our Lord’s command, “Do this in memory of me,” a liturgy developed in Antioch which exists today in the Maronite rite. The overall characteristic of this liturgical tradition is a strong Trinitarian expression... The Maronite liturgy also retains certain aspects of the ancient liturgy of the Old Testament. For example, at the Consecration, the priest tips the chalice in the four directions of the compass to symbolize the shedding of Christ’s blood for the entire universe, which recalls the practice of sprinkling the four corners of the altar with the blood of the sacrificial lamb.
http://maronitemonks.org/wp/story-maronite-catholics/

The Book Early Syriac Theology has a long discussions about Maronite ritual continuations of Pre-Latinized traditions, the introduction saying:
Maronite liturgy, along with the Antiochene tradition, may have had its origins in the ancient rite of Edessa....  a special feature of Maronite worship is the prayer of incense, sedro or hoosoyo, which usually expresses theologically.... the events of salvation history or the meaning of the sacraments... a close study reveals that the Latinizations were mainly accidental and regarding externals. The content of the Maronite missals prior to the reforms after Vatican II reflect the ancient Syriac culture.
https://books.google.com/books?id=q32aBAAAQBAJ&pg=PR11&lpg=PR11&dq=maronite+liturgy+early&source=bl&ots=XUdwai9XlZ&sig=RzpODbumgBdkx4Jkjb7nRlHNNyE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigiaW4483SAhWF7iYKHTodCpgQ6AEIkQEwFQ#v=onepage&q=maronite%20liturgy%20early&f=false

This is from a church page in the US. It's interesting:
Sunday & Holy Days Liturgies
12:30 p.m. in English and Aramaic

The Maronite Liturgy is the original liturgy which developed at Antioch in Aramaic right after the time of the Apostles. This early liturgy was ascribed to St James the Less, the first Bishop of Jerusalem, and was enriched by the hymns and prayers of St Ephrem, James of Sarug and other Fathers of the Antiochean See. ... The languages used in the Maronite liturgy are ancient Syro-Aramaic for certain fixed parts (theTrisagion, Qadishat aloho; the two approaches to the Altar; and the Consecration of the bread and wine),

The Maronite Liturgical Year follows the stages of the life of Jesus Christ: His Birth, Passion, Death and Resurrection, and looks to His Return in Glory. It consists of six Seasons:

    Season of Announcements, leading up to Christmas
    Season of Epiphany
    Season of Lent
    Season of Resurrection
    Season of Pentecost
    Season of Holy Cross, from September 14, to the end of the Liturgical Year.
http://mmocnc.org/liturgies
Interesting issue about the Seasons. I hadnt noticed that before.


Unique pre-Latinization feature is the hoosoyo:
The Hoosoyo is a form of prayer proper to the Syriac Church of Antioch, and, apart from the readings, it constitutes the largest single element of the pre-anaphoral liturgy.

A simple Hoosoyo is comprised of a Proemion . . . and a Sedro. The Proemion is a stylized introductory formula which extols the attributes of God, particularly those which relate to the specific celebration being observed. It is a prayer in praise of God for His goodness toward His people.

The purpose of the Proemion is to prepare for the Sedro, a Syriac word that means “series.” The Sedro petitions God to act again on behalf of the specific needs of His Church. In light of God’s great deeds in the past, the Sedro asks Him to once again accord His help and mercy to the Church, which stands in need.

In Maronite liturgical tradition, the prayer form known as the hoosoyo is the bearer and source—biblical, catechetical , and spiritual—of this Church’s authentic heritage as an Eastern and Syriac Church.
https://thehiddenpearl.org/2013/02/11/catechetical-liturgical-and-biblical-implications-of-the-hoosoyo-in-contemporary-maronite-tradition/


I would like to take this opportunity to share a few things about the Maronite Church
...
We Maronites use about 12 Anaphora (Eucharistic prayers)...

Some Eastern Churches were not always in communion with Rome. Some were formed by schism and later came back to full communion with Rome. This is NOT the case for the Maronite Church. We Maronites have always been in communion with Rome.
http://www.catholic365.com/article/428/what-do-you-mean-you-are-a-maronite-catholic.html
^I am not sure if that last part is true. Weren't the Maronite classed at one point as Monoethelites?
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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I've always been curious to ask how old the Coptic liturgy is? I don't personally believe any surviving iteration of the Syriac-Antiochene Rite is indicative of how the original would've looked. The Chaldean, Maronite and Byzantine iterations are very externally affected. The West Syriac Rite seems to have a more organic, internal development that the others didn't have, but I don't think that reflects what the "earliest" would've looked like either.
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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rakovsky said:
Regarding the Maronites:


Maronite Church in Galilee


wgw said:
The Maronite and West Syriac Rites are of equivalent age, but the Maronite Rite was Latinized beyond belief, and then de-Latinized by taking the current Syriac Orthodox and Syriac Catholic liturgical texts and simplyifting them, or should I say, watering them down.
So we are looking at what range of percent overlap (eg. 5 percent to 10?) with the original 6th c. Maronite service, to make a guess?

There are different claims about how old the Maronite rite is, but I am sure like you are saying that there was major Latinization.


[6th c. Rabbula gospel illustration]

Aramaic is still used by the Maronites in various hymns and parts of the Mass, especially at the Consecration.... Many of the prayers are also derived from the writings of ancient Fathers of the East, especially Saint Ephrem (d. 373), who was declared a doctor of the Universal Church by Pope Benedict XV. His many hymns, rich in poetic expression and typologies from the Scriptures, form the basis for many of the prayers still in use today. ...

Shortly after the time of the Apostles, while abiding by our Lord’s command, “Do this in memory of me,” a liturgy developed in Antioch which exists today in the Maronite rite. The overall characteristic of this liturgical tradition is a strong Trinitarian expression... The Maronite liturgy also retains certain aspects of the ancient liturgy of the Old Testament. For example, at the Consecration, the priest tips the chalice in the four directions of the compass to symbolize the shedding of Christ’s blood for the entire universe, which recalls the practice of sprinkling the four corners of the altar with the blood of the sacrificial lamb.
http://maronitemonks.org/wp/story-maronite-catholics/

The Book Early Syriac Theology has a long discussions about Maronite ritual continuations of Pre-Latinized traditions, the introduction saying:
Maronite liturgy, along with the Antiochene tradition, may have had its origins in the ancient rite of Edessa....  a special feature of Maronite worship is the prayer of incense, sedro or hoosoyo, which usually expresses theologically.... the events of salvation history or the meaning of the sacraments... a close study reveals that the Latinizations were mainly accidental and regarding externals. The content of the Maronite missals prior to the reforms after Vatican II reflect the ancient Syriac culture.
https://books.google.com/books?id=q32aBAAAQBAJ&pg=PR11&lpg=PR11&dq=maronite+liturgy+early&source=bl&ots=XUdwai9XlZ&sig=RzpODbumgBdkx4Jkjb7nRlHNNyE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigiaW4483SAhWF7iYKHTodCpgQ6AEIkQEwFQ#v=onepage&q=maronite%20liturgy%20early&f=false

This is from a church page in the US. It's interesting:
Sunday & Holy Days Liturgies
12:30 p.m. in English and Aramaic

The Maronite Liturgy is the original liturgy which developed at Antioch in Aramaic right after the time of the Apostles. This early liturgy was ascribed to St James the Less, the first Bishop of Jerusalem, and was enriched by the hymns and prayers of St Ephrem, James of Sarug and other Fathers of the Antiochean See. ... The languages used in the Maronite liturgy are ancient Syro-Aramaic for certain fixed parts (theTrisagion, Qadishat aloho; the two approaches to the Altar; and the Consecration of the bread and wine),

The Maronite Liturgical Year follows the stages of the life of Jesus Christ: His Birth, Passion, Death and Resurrection, and looks to His Return in Glory. It consists of six Seasons:

    Season of Announcements, leading up to Christmas
    Season of Epiphany
    Season of Lent
    Season of Resurrection
    Season of Pentecost
    Season of Holy Cross, from September 14, to the end of the Liturgical Year.
http://mmocnc.org/liturgies
Interesting issue about the Seasons. I hadnt noticed that before.


Unique pre-Latinization feature is the hoosoyo:
The Hoosoyo is a form of prayer proper to the Syriac Church of Antioch, and, apart from the readings, it constitutes the largest single element of the pre-anaphoral liturgy.

A simple Hoosoyo is comprised of a Proemion . . . and a Sedro. The Proemion is a stylized introductory formula which extols the attributes of God, particularly those which relate to the specific celebration being observed. It is a prayer in praise of God for His goodness toward His people.

The purpose of the Proemion is to prepare for the Sedro, a Syriac word that means “series.” The Sedro petitions God to act again on behalf of the specific needs of His Church. In light of God’s great deeds in the past, the Sedro asks Him to once again accord His help and mercy to the Church, which stands in need.

In Maronite liturgical tradition, the prayer form known as the hoosoyo is the bearer and source—biblical, catechetical , and spiritual—of this Church’s authentic heritage as an Eastern and Syriac Church.
https://thehiddenpearl.org/2013/02/11/catechetical-liturgical-and-biblical-implications-of-the-hoosoyo-in-contemporary-maronite-tradition/


I would like to take this opportunity to share a few things about the Maronite Church
...
We Maronites use about 12 Anaphora (Eucharistic prayers)...

Some Eastern Churches were not always in communion with Rome. Some were formed by schism and later came back to full communion with Rome. This is NOT the case for the Maronite Church. We Maronites have always been in communion with Rome.
http://www.catholic365.com/article/428/what-do-you-mean-you-are-a-maronite-catholic.html
^I am not sure if that last part is true. Weren't the Maronite classed at one point as Monoethelites?
Indeed. History is clear, they were defenders of "Miathelitism" or what we call Monothelitism.
 

rakovsky

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
I've always been curious to ask how old the Coptic liturgy is? I don't personally believe any surviving iteration of the Syriac-Antiochene Rite is indicative of how the original would've looked. The Chaldean, Maronite and Byzantine iterations are very externally affected. The West Syriac Rite seems to have a more organic, internal development that the others didn't have, but I don't think that reflects what the "earliest" would've looked like either.
Good points.
 

rakovsky

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Do you believe that Indian Orthodox have traditions and rites passed down from the early Christians that are no longer found in the Syriac Church in the Middle East today?
I know that there are stories of St. Thomas in India that have been passed down for centuries and resemble the Acts of Thomas, but here I am thinking of anything else.

A quite interesting community or rite are the Indian Knanaya, because they have unique Jewish traditions that the mainstream Church commonly set aside as part of the Old Testament practices. What is interesting about this is that indeed in the early Christian records like St Jerome's writings there was a sizable community of Jewish Christians keeping these practices in Palestine and the Levant in the 4th-6th c. AD, but eventually in medieval times the community's distinctiveness disappeared. There is modern a theory that this division began already among 1st-2nd c. Christians, dividing themselves into two communities, one focused on St. James and Mosaic customs and another focused on Peter and Paul and putting much less emphasis on the Torah rituals.

Here in the case of the Knanaya we do have a community keeping these Old Testament practices, and they claim to be descended from Aramaic speaking Christians keeping these rules who moved to South India following Nicea. This could make sense if Nicea, by enshrining the mainstream practices, would have put pressure on Christians following Torah rites and living in the empire. How else to explain a sizable exodus of Christians from Roman rule after Christianity became official?

Cana was a valuable town in Christian tradition, because the wedding at Cana occurred there.


Thomas of Cana

KNAI THOMA (MAR THOMA) AND THE MIGRATION
Twenty years after the Nicean Council (synod), Knai Thoma, a rich international merchant from Cana, brought a colony of 400 Syrian Christians consisting of 72 families belonging to 7 clans with instructions from the Patriarch of Antioch, Mor Yusthedius, to the Malabar coast of India. The group included men, women, children, priests, deacons and their bishop Mor Joseph of Urfa (Uraha/Edessa). The names of the seven clans were: Bagi, Belkuth, Hadai, Kujalig, Koja, Mugmuth, and Thegmuth. The legend is that Mor Joseph had a startling dream (vision) in which he saw the plight of the Christian church in Malabar established by St. Thomas, the Apostle, in the 1st Century. Mor Joseph and Knai Thoma landed in Kodungalloor (Crangannoore) in 345 AD. Knai Thoma and his group sailed in three ships. The leading ship called "Babylonia" had three masts. The main mast flew King David's flag, the second mast flew the Roman flag with the cross, and the third flew King Abgar of Edessa's flag.

JEWS AND KNANANITES
Knananites believe that their customs and rituals are a continuation of ancient Jewish practices such as the position of the bride standing on the right of the bridegroom during the wedding ceremony, burial of the dead to face East to Jerusalem, the priest's black velvet cap which is similar to the Jew's head gear, the "kiss of peace" ceremony during Eucharist, the blessings given by parents and grandparents their children and grandchildren, reminiscent of the Old Testament blessings. During Easter celebrations Knananites partake with unleavened bread and drink wine made of coconut milk and plums reminiscent of the Jewish malzot and red wine during Passover night. The Knanaya marriage ceremony includes the bridal canopy that may be equivalent to the Jewish nuppah; the ceremonial bathing on the eve of the wedding that may be parallel to the Jewish mikrah or ritual bath: and singing of Old Testament songs on the eve and on the day of the wedding. All these customs and rituals are exclusively practiced by the Knananites and so distinguish them from the native Christians.
http://www.knanaya.us/id7.html

Another possibility could be that the Knanaya are native Indian Cochin Jews who converted to Christianity but kept Jewish practices, rather than being Christians who arrived from the Levant, but that would contradict the traditions.

St. Marys Knanaya Jacobite Church in Kottayam,Kerala containing ancient Nasrani symbols

The term Knanaya is derived from the name Thomas of Cana, an important figure in Saint Thomas Christian tradition. The ultimate derivation of Thomas' epithet Cana is not clear: it may refer to the town of Cana, which is mentioned in the Bible, or it may instead refer to the land of Canaan.[2] Alternately, it may be a corruption of a Syriac term for merchant (Knāyil in Malayalam).
...
The earlier version [of the story of the two Indian OO communities] traces the divide to the figure of Thomas of Cana, a Syrian merchant who led a group of 72 immigrant families from the Middle East to settle in India in the 4th century (some sources place these events in the 8th century).[8] This story may reflect a historical migration of East Syrian Christians to India around this time, which established the region's relationship with the Church of the East.[9] In the Knanaya versions of this story, the Knanaya are the descendants of Thomas of Cana and his followers, while the Northists are the descendents of the local Christian body which was converted by Thomas the Apostle centuries earlier.

...traditions are commemorated during wedding ceremonies, retellings of biblical events from the Old Testament, and the erection of ancient churches.[27]

Biblical songs are composed with the intention of teaching and transmitting Bible stories... An example of this can be seen in the Knanaya song "Maranarul" or "By the Lord's Command", a rendition of the creation of Adam in the biblical story of Adam and Eve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knanaya
In the year 345 A.D., Knai Thoma, a rich merchant, and 72 families from Edessa (or modern Urfa),  immigrated to Malabar (presently Kerala) and established their colony. In the group there were also priests, deacons and their bishop, Uraha Mor Ouseph (Bishop Joseph of Uraha/Urfa).
... . In 345 AD, Knai Thomas and Mor Joseph (Aithlaha) left Edessa and Aithlaha was succeeded by Mor Abraham. (This succession has been documented in the Edessene Chronicles, which has been preserved and translated by Scholars today).
http://www.stthomasnj.org/origin.php

There is also a counter-theory that Mar Joseph was actually a mythologized version of the medieval Cochin  Jewish community's leader, Joseph Rabban.


I am not sure what to make of the competing claims.

There is a strong debate about the Knanayas' origins over at CAF:
Daffy:
everybody know that you [Knanaya] are just converted christians like any other christian in India since none of the genetic results proves you have a single J2(COHEN) model in your genetics.
List of lies I opposed with facts:-
1) Archdiocese of Kottayam is only for Jewish Christians :-
Fact:-
1: The creation of Archdiocese of Kottayam was based on the cheppedu (copper plate) which was a fabricated one. Everybody local there was admitted to the respective churches in the locality without any checking.
2: Southists don’t have a unified version of story from where they came and through which port. Some say “We came from Yemen, We came from Levant, even some non-sense ones say We came from GOA?!!”
...
3) We came for Missionary purposes :-
There was numerous trade and contact with middle east especially The Levant during ancient times. But the missionaries joined with the local community doing the mission. According to statements by some well known southist speakers that we didn’t mingled with local population. Then how can we believe that you came for missionary purposes. Atleast say the name of a man you had converted and joined with you, not necessarily a local native but as you insist, a Middle East Jew?
https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=10311397

I kind of agree that it doesn't seem very likely that the reason for the migration was primarily missionary if they didn't mix with the locals but rather have kept themselves apart from non-Knayanas. Mission work is rarely done by a whole community emigrating, which instead would appear like taking refuge for political or social reasons.

Thomas48
what about our Knanayas wedding traditions? There are many that parallel with Jewish Wedding traditions especially that of the Yemenite Jews. Knanayas were Jewish-Christians when they migrated or early converts to Christianity that still clung to Jewish Customs,
  • 1. Knanaya Vazhu Pidutham (Blessing by placing hands on the heads of the couple)
    2. Knanaya Mylanchi (Henna on the Hands and Feet of the Bride)

    3. Knanaya Mylanchi (Beautification of the Bride and Ritual Bath)
    4. Knanaya Wedding Songs (Most explain marriage life and the Old Testament)
    5. Knanaya Wedding Canopy (Put above the bride and groom when leaving the Church)

Until these DNA results are made public and we can all see them, there is no point in bringing [them] up
https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=10311397

So it's a quite interesting question: Are the Knanaya Jewish Syriac Christians who emigrated in large numbers in the 4th-8th c. AD as their tradition says, or are they a community of many converts of Cochin Jews who nonetheless kept their Jewish customs?
 

rakovsky

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As far as I know, the Jerusalem Patriachate, the Bulgarians, and the Romanians repeat the Greek and Antiochian Orthodox services and rituals, and don't have noticeable rituals and services passed down from before, say, 200-300 AD that the Greeks and Antiochians don't have. Would you agree?

Those lands were Christian before 200 AD, but it doesn't mean they have up to today preserved unique rituals that the others don't have.
 

iohanne

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rakovsky said:

These all have major 1st century apostolic centers with rites lasting to our times:

Rome,
Antioch,
Jerusalem
Greece
Egypt
Edessa/The East Syrians/Church of the East


Jerusalem's liturgy today seems to be basically either the Syriac or Greek rites.

Other centers of Christianity in apostolic times with their own rites could include:
Lebanon
Armenia
India
Ethiopia
Bulgaria
Romania
Serbia/Illyria
Spain
England


I wonder how many of these have rites and services not found in the Churches' rites that I included in the first list.
May I hesitantly propose an ancient Celtic rite of which we know very little - but perhaps introduced by St. Patrick (a Romano-Briton Christian) and his disciples - and a later Romanised version of which we have a few manuscripts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_mass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Rite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbio_Missal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowe_Missal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Dimma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mulling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Cerne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Leabhar_Breac
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiphonary_of_Bangor

As you can see in the above books, although we do have some manuscripts more fully devoted to liturgical materials (Bobbio, Stowe, etc.), in some of the other books, we have more of the folk-piety of the prayerbooks: homilies, ecclesiastical legends, Harrowing of Hell texts seem to be popular, litanies, services that would've or could've taken place at home (Unction, Baptism, etc.), a hymn or an antiphon here and there. They all gave us a little entrance-way into the unique thought-world and devotional spirituality of those early Christians for whom the Celtic rite(s) were normative.
 

rakovsky

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^Good info.

The word Celtic is related to Gaelic or Gaullic, although Gaelic more particularly refers to Celts in Britain, whereas Gaul is France.

Gallican Rite
The rites first developed in the early centuries as the Syriac-Greek rites of Jerusalem and Antioch and were first translated into Latin in various parts of the Western Roman Empire Praetorian prefecture of Gaul. By the 5th century, it was well established in the Roman civil diocese of Gaul, an early center of Christianity. Ireland too is known to have had a form of this Gallican Liturgy mixed with Celtic customs.

There is no information before the 5th century and very little then; and throughout the whole period there was, to judge by existing documents and descriptions, so much diversity that, though the general outlines of the rite were of the same pattern, the name must not be taken to imply more than a very moderate amount of homogeneity.

The Rite of Iberia, used from the 5th century, in Roman provinces within the Roman civil diocese of Hispania, to the end of the 11th century, and lingered as an archaeological survival in chapels at Toledo and Salamanca, was so nearly allied to the Gallican Rite that the term Hispano-Gallican is often applied to the two. But the Iberian Mozarabic Rite has, like the allied Celtic Rite, enough of an independent history to require separate treatment, so that though it will be necessary to allude to both by way of illustration, this article will be devoted primarily to the rite once used in what is now France.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallican_Rite
There are only theories/proposals mentioned as to its origin:
Ephesine theory
According to it the Gallican Rite was referred to an original brought to Lyon from Ephesus by St. Pothinus and Irenaeus, who had received it through Polycarp from John of Patmos.

Ambrosian theory
Duchesne points out that "the Gallican Liturgy in the features which distinguish it from the Roman, betrays all the characteristics of the Eastern liturgies," and that "some of its formularies are to be found word for word in the Greek texts which were in use in the Churches of the Syro-Byzantine Rite either in the fourth century or somewhat later," and infers from this that, "the Gallican Liturgy is an Oriental liturgy, introduced into the West towards the middle of the fourth century." ...  Controverting the third or Roman theory of origin, he stresses that Pope Innocent I (416) in a letter to Decentius, bishop of Gubbio, spoke of usages which Duchesne recognizes as Gallican (e.g. the position of the Diptychs and the Pax), as "foreign importations" and did not recognize in them the ancient usage of his own Church, and he thinks it hard to explain why the African Church should have accepted the Roman reforms, while Ambrose himself a Roman. refused them. He assumes that the Ambrosian Rite is not really Roman, but Gallican, much Romanized at a later period, and that the Gubbio variations of which Innocent I complained were borrowed from Milan.

Roman theory
it will be necessary to point out first certain details in which all the Latin or Western rites agree with one another in differing from the Eastern,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallican_Rite
 
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