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What if Orthodoxy didn't exist?

xOrthodox4Christx

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I'm told that, in an alternate universe, any number of possibilities can theoretically exist. Therefore, there is a universe where Orthodoxy is naught. What religion would you follow if Orthodoxy didn't exist?
 

RobS

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Why care about any other universe except the one we live in?
 

augustin717

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RaphaCam said:
If I hadn't met Orthodoxy, I'd either return to Roman Catholicism (in the neo-conservative kind) or would convert to Islam.
dayum
 

youssef

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As i am a heretic. love have many form so i will follow love whenever will be
 

Porter ODoran

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youssef said:
As i am a heretic. love have many form so i will follow love whenever will be
Are you sure that's what a heretic is? Maybe you mean a libertine?
 

youssef

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Porter ODoran said:
youssef said:
As i am a heretic. love have many form so i will follow love whenever will be
Are you sure that's what a heretic is? Maybe you mean a libertine?
[/quote
I meant by heretic that i don't follow orthodoxy. So as a non orthodox what i will follow in other universe where orthodoxy or even christianity doesn't exist
 

Porter ODoran

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youssef said:
Porter ODoran said:
youssef said:
As i am a heretic. love have many form so i will follow love whenever will be
Are you sure that's what a heretic is? Maybe you mean a libertine?
[/quote
I meant by heretic that i don't follow orthodoxy. So as a non orthodox what i will follow in other universe where orthodoxy or even christianity doesn't exist
What is love? What do you love?
 

Justin Kolodziej

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Porter ODoran said:
nothing said:
Why care about any other universe except the one we live in?
There are no other universes. That's what "universe" means.
Actually, this is the true answer, but just for discussion's sake...
Quantum physics, with a side of the Polish and Slovak gods my ancestors were never converted from (just for cultural reasons, of course  ;) )
 

youssef

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I will follow a religion of love. A religion who will teach me to accept other and love them, a religion not based on fear. A religion who will teach you that dying for other is the best form of love.
 

Iconodule

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Some kind of neo-Confucianism or Daoism. Or Platonism. Or maybe Pure Land Buddhism.
 

TheTrisagion

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According to the multiverse theory, every potential option spawns a new universe, so my counterparts in all the other universes are worshiping an infinite number of other religions because there are an infinite variations of me.

I find all that hard to believe, so I don't.
 

Agabus

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I suspect a universe without the historical reality of Orthodoxy would have loads of religions that haven't formed in this one considering the swaths of Earth Orthodoxy has dominated as the lead faith.

And heck, without Orthodoxy you don't ultimately have Islam.

 

hecma925

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If there was no Orthodox in this world, since i don't believe in multiverse/alt realty, I'd be an agnostic that would go into some Christianized sect every now and then.
 

Ainnir

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TheTrisagion said:
According to the multiverse theory, every potential option spawns a new universe, so my counterparts in all the other universes are worshiping an infinite number of other religions because there are an infinite variations of me.

I find all that hard to believe, so I don't.
+1
 

michaelus

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There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
 

Luke

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^Captain Kirk was in an alternative universe. :p
 

TheTrisagion

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michaelus said:
There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
What? The Multiverse theory has nothing to do with quantum physics. Quantum physics has to do with subatomic particles. The multiverse is a hypothesis that addresses the anthropic principle. To date, all constructions of it are unfalsifiable and therefore outside the scope of any real scientific research.
 

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TheTrisagion said:
michaelus said:
There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
What? The Multiverse theory has nothing to do with quantum physics. Quantum physics has to do with subatomic particles. The multiverse is a hypothesis that addresses the anthropic principle. To date, all constructions of it are unfalsifiable and therefore outside the scope of any real scientific research.
But it's fun to think about hahaha.
 

michaelus

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TheTrisagion said:
michaelus said:
There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
What? The Multiverse theory has nothing to do with quantum physics. Quantum physics has to do with subatomic particles. The multiverse is a hypothesis that addresses the anthropic principle. To date, all constructions of it are unfalsifiable and therefore outside the scope of any real scientific research.
I thought you meant the "many worlds" interpretation of Quantum.
 

Porter ODoran

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TheTrisagion said:
michaelus said:
There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
What? The Multiverse theory has nothing to do with quantum physics. Quantum physics has to do with subatomic particles. The multiverse is a hypothesis that addresses the anthropic principle. To date, all constructions of it are unfalsifiable and therefore outside the scope of any real scientific research.
I assume he meant theoretical physics.
 

mikeforjesus

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You would follow what is as close to your heart and even then you would hope for some changes in that religion. Or if you are not yet convicted of righteousness you would be fine there but right would still be right and wrong would still be wrong except not in the eyes of the ruler of that universe. You would still be doing sin felt by others but not by yourself
 

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youssef said:
I will follow a religion of love. A religion who will teach me to accept other and love them, a religion not based on fear. A religion who will teach you that dying for other is the best form of love.
But why really is dying for others the best kind of love? I know many Feel that way(John the apostle för example, who viewed the atonement that way), but why? I mean hypothetically
 

beebert

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I would follow my own religion if orthodoxy didnt exist: beebertianity.
 

beebert

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michaelus said:
There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
What do you mean by one universe? How did you Draw that conclusion about quantum physics? What has that even to do about the question of multiple universes? Did this universe tell you all this? Is anyone who believes in Einstein's theory of relativity deluded too? Or those who believe that geocentrism is false?
 

Alpha60

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
I'm told that, in an alternate universe, any number of possibilities can theoretically exist. Therefore, there is a universe where Orthodoxy is naught. What religion would you follow if Orthodoxy didn't exist?
This is based on the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics, wherein for each quantum event with two outcomes, instead of the system resolving itself to one of the two possibilities upon being observed (remember, before it is observed, both states exist in superposition, for example, the electron of an atom is both spin up and spin down until you observe it, which causes it to resolve into the observed state, something we call decoherence), two alternate universes or realities are created, one where the event happened and one where it did not (see Schrodinger's Cat).

So, the electron in the many worlds interpretation, when it is observed, results in the universe sort of branching into two new universes, one where the electron is spin up, and one where it is spin down.

Or if we take the Schrodinger's Cat experiment, when the door to the gas chamber where the cat may or may not have been killed based on a quantum event occurring one way or another, in the new universe A the cat is alive, and in universe B, the cat is dead.  (Of course, Schrodinger's Cat is a pure thought experiment; you can't actually do that because the cat, or indeed any non-quantum matter governed by classical physics, if it interacts with the quantum system, "observes" or "measures" it and thus decoherence occurs).  See: the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Now, with the many worlds interpretation, you have to remember that each new world created by the outcome of a quantum system decohering must be both physically possible, and also, observable.  So this means, there would be no universe where the speed of light is 1 MPH or the suns in a galaxy turn out to be giant lemons.  Each new world also has to be observable, so there is theoretically no alternate universe where the Big Bang did not occur, since without the Big Bang, you have a singularity with no events, and thus no meaningful time, and therefore no "observation" (nor could we say I think at this point that the Singularity was ever in a coherent quantum state).

Some physicists assert that if our universe exists in a false vacuum, if the many worlds or certain other interpretations of quantum mechanics hold true, the theoretically possible universe-ending event where the bubble "pops" and our universe resolves to a true vaccum, a vacuum metastability event, would be impossible, because such an event could not be observed, by virtue of destroying all matter governed by classical physics and therefore precluding decoherence into such a scenario.

So, because the physics of many worlds dictate that each universe must be physically possible to exist, and observable, I would propose two answers to your question: either such a universe would be impossible or devoid of all human life, because rhe incarnation of our Lord is physically required for the existence of humanity, or, if in fact the incarnation of our Lord is not physically required for the existence of the human race, God would save the people in that universe on the basis of the Scholastic idea of Invincible Ignorance.

Orthodox theology never formalized the idea of Invincible Ignorance, but I think it is valid, in that it reconciles the infinite love of God with the simple fact that not everyone since the Incarnation has had access to the Gospel.  Since we believe our Lord preached to those in Hades and offered them salvation, Him offering salvation to those with no physical access to or ability to join His church is reasonable.  The idea of invincible ignorance also does not require us to embrace the dreadful heresy of monergism: the two alternatives are to say that God automatically saves everyone (which is universalism, and thus monergism), or that God foreordains some, including, in your scenario, entire universes, to damnation, which is the horrific doctrine of John Calvin and his extreme application of monergism.

However, before we even make recourse to the theology I proposed above, I would like to again suggest that according to God's will, which dictates physical laws, humans might not be able to exist in any universe without God becoming Incarnate through the person of His Son, our Lord, the uncreated Logos.  The Logos, Jesus Christ, would exist in and also beyond all universes, since there is one God, everywhere present, who fillest all things, according to our liturgy.  So I propose that if there are multiple universes, those without our Lord and His Church, which is integral to Him, do not actually exist owing to be unobservable.

One final point: the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is not universally adhered to; the Standard or Copenhagen Interpretation is the most commonly used for didactic and research purposes.  Many worlds is simply a widely held idea among physicists.

Its kind of cool, and can lead to interesting and fun science fiction, although most sci fi dealing with the theme ignores the fact that transit between any of the parallel universes is deemed completely, fundamentally impossible.  But so is FTL, Warp Drive the way Star Trek and Star Wars depict it, so one can still have some fun with the concept in sci fi provided one recognizes that one has at that point crossed over into the fictional side of the sci fi coin.  An alternate universe story where there is no travel between the universes however is a plausible extrapolation of the theory.

So that's my scientific and theological take on your question.
 

Alpha60

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TheTrisagion said:
michaelus said:
There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
What? The Multiverse theory has nothing to do with quantum physics. Quantum physics has to do with subatomic particles. The multiverse is a hypothesis that addresses the anthropic principle. To date, all constructions of it are unfalsifiable and therefore outside the scope of any real scientific research.
Indeed, its an interpretation of quantum mechanics, and not quantum mechanics itself.  Although strictly speaking, many worlds is not limited to the Anthropic principle based on the definition of "measurement" according to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.  A rocky meteorite can be an observer.

Of course some people refuse to believe in quantum mechanics because they think the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is "wrong," which is a seriously deluded viewpoint given that it has more or less been proven, for example, by the interference patterns generated through the optical double-slit experiment.  The uncertainty principle is simply an aspect of how waveforms interact with large objects governed by Classical Physics, a description of reality, and not a limitation of our ability to measure.  So Michaelus has no reason to reject quantum mechanics, either for the reason of the multiverse interpretation, which is as you pointed out merely an interpretation of it, a concept, and not a falsifiable theory.

By the way, I did call many worlds a theory in my previous post, but I was taking liberties with 5he term to help answer the question for the OP; it is in fact not a theory but a thought experiment, interpretation or concept. 

What is ironic by the way is that some scientists believe in it while rejecting belief in God, ostensibly because God's existence is not falsifiable; those scientists are doctrinaire atheists, hypocrites and deluded fools.

The most extreme example of a case like that is Richard Dawkins and his idea of Memetics.  He asks us both to accept his non-falsifiable theory of the meme, while rejecting a belief in God as such a meme, when in fact neither idea is falsifiable.  Now, memes might well exist; I think memetics is a useful philosophical concept to explain the propagation of ideas and concepts through human communication, but I also do not reject a belief in God, nor do I accept his view that religion is merely a highly successful meme, because this requires me to believe in his non-theory of memetics.  I think Dawkins himself has admitted this, but many of his atheist fundamentalist followers persist in using the idea of memetics to attack theistic religions without realizing that they are effectively just proselytizing their own new creed.
 

Alpha60

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TheTrisagion said:
According to the multiverse theory, every potential option spawns a new universe, so my counterparts in all the other universes are worshiping an infinite number of other religions because there are an infinite variations of me.

I find all that hard to believe, so I don't.
The key word is "potential." 
 

Alpha60

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michaelus said:
There is only one universe, anyone who believes quantum """""""physics""""""" is seriously deluded.
As TheTrisagion correctly pointed out, the many worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is not part of Quantum Mechanics; it is not a falsifiable theory but an idea or concept, basically a way of interpreting it.

Quantum mechanics is real, and has been proven as much of anything else: every time you use electricity, you are using electrons, the behavior of which is predicted by and governed in quantum mechanics; the fact that nuclear weapons and reactors work as predicted further validates quantum mechanics. 

You do not have to accept the idea of multiple universes in order to accept quantum mechanics as proven science, indeed, a very large number of scientists reject the concept and agree with the statement "there is only one universe."  I believe Stephen Hawking, for example, rejects Many Worlds in favour of the Standard Interpretation.

So, your premise is wrong, basically, and quantum mechanics as a theory has been extremely well tested.  The Internet, electricity, the atom bomb and nuclear reactors all would have failed were quantum mechanics to prove invalid.
 

hecma925

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beebert said:
I would follow my own religion if orthodoxy didnt exist: beebertianity.
Orthodoxy exists now, so what's your excuse?
 

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hecma925 said:
beebert said:
I would follow my own religion if orthodoxy didnt exist: beebertianity.
Orthodoxy exists now, so what's your excuse?
Who said I asked for an excuse? Perhaps I belong to another universe.
 

beebert

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hecma925 said:
beebert said:
hecma925 said:
beebert said:
I would follow my own religion if orthodoxy didnt exist: beebertianity.
Orthodoxy exists now, so what's your excuse?
Who said I asked for an excuse? Perhaps I belong to another universe.
How would you get there?
Do you have any proof that I am not already there?
 
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