• For users new and old: the forum rules were streamlined when we transitioned to the new software. Please ensure that you are familiar with them. Continued use of the forum means that you (a) know the rules, and (b) pledge that you'll abide by them. For more information, check out the OrthodoxChristianity.Net Rules section. (There are only 2 threads there - Rules, and Administrative Structure.)

What is everyone reading?

Luke

Taxiarches
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
7,280
Reaction score
99
Points
48
Surprised by Christ: My Journey From Judaism to Orthodox Christianity / Fr. A. James Bernstein
 

rakovsky

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
27
Points
48
Location
USA
Website
rakovskii.livejournal.com
Volnutt said:
Smith's claims could only be refuted by philologists or archaeologists.
I don't know why you say that. If the Mormons preach that the witnesses saw an angel and held gold plates, and then a witness says the angel had no appearance or shape, and another witness says that he didn't physically hold the plates or see them with his natural eyes, then this refutes for me the belief that the plates were real physical objects!

Yet later Smith showed people plates under a cover without letting them look at the plates themselves or removing the cover. So in that instance, there were physical objects that he was calling plates. For me, that refutes that there were physical plates and that even they had some kind of nonphysical existence that the witnesses experienced.

If the Apostles were lying then anybody could overturn their claims by locating Christ's body.
Yes, unless... someone stole the body either Friday night before the guards arrived, or from the guards, either when the guards slept or by overpowering them. That is of course assuming that Matthew's story of the guards is even true.
 

biro

Protostrator
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
23,463
Reaction score
144
Points
63
Age
47
Website
archiveofourown.org
rakovsky said:
Justin Kissel said:
Also, someone calling "the case for Christ" a very good book is making me seriously reconsider my participation on this forum  8)
Why? He goes over the main arguments.
He's an evangelical.

Nothing he has that we need.
 

xOrthodox4Christx

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I am currently reading Why I am Not a Muslim: a New Atheist critique of Islam based on the most critical assessment of Orientalist and Islamic scholarship. It's a good book for anyone who wants an encyclopedia of critiques made against Islam. So, it's handy for me, since I don't like to lodge my brain full of citations of Hadith and the Qur'an, let alone read them.

The case for Christ is a book made by faithless "Christians" who need to use pathetic argumentation and "proofs" in order to convince and assure themselves of the veracity of their faith. If you need pathetic assurances such as those documented in the Case for Christ, you're not fit to be a Christian. I read the book when my faith was weak and I needed a self-esteem boost. That's all it's useful for.

"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness." (1 Corinthians 1:23)
 

Antonis

Archon
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
2,996
Reaction score
0
Points
0
biro said:
rakovsky said:
Justin Kissel said:
Also, someone calling "the case for Christ" a very good book is making me seriously reconsider my participation on this forum  8)
Why? He goes over the main arguments.
He's an evangelical.

Nothing he has that we need.
But never criticize Catholicism.
 

xOrthodox4Christx

Taxiarches
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Volnutt said:
rakovsky said:
I just read the last two chapters of Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.

He lays out a lot of the kinds of arguments I have heard before, although it's a very good book by a former atheist. One of his key arguments is that the apostles faced persecution for their believes, which proves their sincerity. A problem with this argument is that those who knowingly invented claims in other religions like J.Smith have faced persecution too - in Smith's case being killed.
Smith's claims could only be refuted by philologists or archaeologists. If the Apostles were lying then anybody could overturn their claims by locating Christ's body.
Exactly. It seems odd that no ancient author attempted to discredit the Apostles in this manner. Neither did they ever deny his existence.
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,301
Reaction score
181
Points
63
Age
39
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
Antonis said:
biro said:
rakovsky said:
Justin Kissel said:
Also, someone calling "the case for Christ" a very good book is making me seriously reconsider my participation on this forum  8)
Why? He goes over the main arguments.
He's an evangelical.

Nothing he has that we need.
But never criticize Catholicism.
Mor Ephrem said:
Roman Catholics are wonderful people and we should all thank God that they still exist because the world would be impoverished without them.  I love Rome.
 

Cyrillic

Toumarches
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
13,710
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
26
Location
Netherlands
rakovsky said:
I just read the last two chapters of Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.

He lays out a lot of the kinds of arguments I have heard before, although it's a very good book by a former atheist. One of his key arguments is that the apostles faced persecution for their believes, which proves their sincerity. A problem with this argument is that those who knowingly invented claims in other religions like J.Smith have faced persecution too - in Smith's case being killed.
True, but Smith wasn't given the option to recant and save his life. He was simply shot, iirc.

Still, people who need arguments for faith miss the point.
 

Asteriktos

Strategos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
39,563
Reaction score
314
Points
83
rakovsky said:
Justin Kissel said:
Also, someone calling "the case for Christ" a very good book is making me seriously reconsider my participation on this forum  8)
Why? He goes over the main arguments.
He is an awful human being. I wouldn't give him a tissue if he was covered in snot.
 

TheTrisagion

Hoplitarches
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
17,834
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Age
41
Location
PA, USA
Justin Kissel said:
rakovsky said:
Justin Kissel said:
Also, someone calling "the case for Christ" a very good book is making me seriously reconsider my participation on this forum  8)
Why? He goes over the main arguments.
He is an awful human being. I wouldn't give him a tissue if he was covered in snot.
I think he is silly, but I never thought of him as an awful human being. What did he do? Pee in your Cheerios?
 

biro

Protostrator
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
23,463
Reaction score
144
Points
63
Age
47
Website
archiveofourown.org
Antonis said:
biro said:
rakovsky said:
Justin Kissel said:
Also, someone calling "the case for Christ" a very good book is making me seriously reconsider my participation on this forum  8)
Why? He goes over the main arguments.
He's an evangelical.

Nothing he has that we need.
But never criticize Catholicism.
Another thing I didn't say. Must be fun for you.
 

Alpo

Merarches
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
9,878
Reaction score
1
Points
0
I'd like to start a new book but I still have old ones ongoing. I'd like to finish old ones before starting a new one but old ones are booooring. So I can't read old ones nor start a new one.  :'(
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,301
Reaction score
181
Points
63
Age
39
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
biro said:
Antonis said:
biro said:
rakovsky said:
Justin Kissel said:
Also, someone calling "the case for Christ" a very good book is making me seriously reconsider my participation on this forum  8)
Why? He goes over the main arguments.
He's an evangelical.

Nothing he has that we need.
But never criticize Catholicism.
Another thing I didn't say. Must be fun for you.
Yes, if by that you mean:

[quote author=biro]Never criticize Catholicism.[/quote]

Not exactly, if by that you mean this.
 

biro

Protostrator
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
23,463
Reaction score
144
Points
63
Age
47
Website
archiveofourown.org
That's not a quote from me.

Also, since you attributed Antonis' quote to me, and then linked to my entire posting history, your responses make even less sense.

This is a thread about what people are reading. Maybe we should talk about that.
 

Mor Ephrem

Hypatos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Messages
36,301
Reaction score
181
Points
63
Age
39
Location
New York!
Website
www.orthodoxchristianity.net
biro said:
That's not a quote from me.

Also, since you attributed Antonis' quote to me, and then linked to my entire posting history, your responses make even less sense.

This is a thread about what people are reading. Maybe we should talk about that.
No, they make perfect sense.  You just don't get it.
 

rakovsky

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
27
Points
48
Location
USA
Website
rakovskii.livejournal.com
xOrthodox4Christx said:
Volnutt said:
rakovsky said:
I just read the last two chapters of Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.

He lays out a lot of the kinds of arguments I have heard before, although it's a very good book by a former atheist. One of his key arguments is that the apostles faced persecution for their believes, which proves their sincerity. A problem with this argument is that those who knowingly invented claims in other religions like J.Smith have faced persecution too - in Smith's case being killed.
Smith's claims could only be refuted by philologists or archaeologists. If the Apostles were lying then anybody could overturn their claims by locating Christ's body.
Exactly. It seems odd that no ancient author attempted to discredit the Apostles in this manner. Neither did they ever deny his existence.
Celsus invented an idea that Jesus was born of a Roman soldier.
Matthew 28 records a rumor among the rabbis' community that the disciples took the body. If the apostles took and hid the body, how likely would it be that someone would find it?

However, the other main features of Jesus' story- that of a Messianic teacher and leader, executed by His political and religious opponents, are easy to believe. It was also common in ancient Judea for religious figures to perform healing rituals, as Josephus records. Jesus certainly existed and is named in numerous texts connected to that era.
 

scamandrius

Merarches
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
9,377
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
44
Location
Omaha
Gamliel said:
Surprised by Christ: My Journey From Judaism to Orthodox Christianity / Fr. A. James Bernstein
I read that, too.  It was a good read, but once you read one conversion story, you seem to have read them all.  There wasn't anything particularly noteworthy, IMHO, but it was still a good read.
 

rakovsky

Toumarches
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
27
Points
48
Location
USA
Website
rakovskii.livejournal.com
Cyrillic said:
rakovsky said:
I just read the last two chapters of Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.

He lays out a lot of the kinds of arguments I have heard before, although it's a very good book by a former atheist. One of his key arguments is that the apostles faced persecution for their believes, which proves their sincerity. A problem with this argument is that those who knowingly invented claims in other religions like J.Smith have faced persecution too - in Smith's case being killed.
True, but Smith wasn't given the option to recant and save his life. He was simply shot, iirc.

Still, people who need arguments for faith miss the point.
J.Smith had many chances to leave Mormonism, but he voluntarily chose to go to Nauvoo and get jailed. Nor did he recant when the mob came for him. Granted, there was no moment when the mob said that if he recanted they would let him live.

Likewise, in the case of James and Peter, I am unaware of their killers giving them the option of recanting. In fact, had they recanted, it might not have made much difference, since it could be considered proof that they were fabricators.

I'm sure that many other early Christians were given an option of recanting and that they were very sincere in their faith. However, the only clearly physical appearances of Jesus in the Bible were to two women and eleven disciples, which limits how many people are certain to have known if they experienced real appearances.

As for people needing proof, I think that this is a legitimate need, or else Jesus wouldn't have appeared to Thomas.
 

LenInSebastopol

Protokentarchos
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
3,596
Reaction score
0
Points
0
"Need proof".
It no longer computes.
What we have has been revealed to us, each.
It would be like "prove you taste strawberries".
I have to wonder if Thomas was a Westerner!  ;)
 

sakura95

OC.Net Guru
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
1,437
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
25
Location
Brighton, UK
Opus118 said:
sakura95 said:
Freedom Regained: The possibility of Free Will

Author: Julian Baggini

I just picked up the book but from the looks of it, Baggini is trying to put forward a version of Free Will against the growing thought of neuroscientists and those like Harris and Dawkins that there isn't any Free Will. There is a nice criticism of Western Christianity within the first 40 pages of the book. If he had known about Eastern Orthodoxy and the theology of Palamas, his reaction might be different instead of presenting Christians as having a sort of dualistic worldview between God and Creation.

The sort of Free Will Baggini seems to be advancing is Compatabilistic. Not one which I would agree with personally but to be fair to Baggini here, he does raise some key issues.

Personally, I take William James "Two Stage model" which is Libertarian in nature and leaves room for some form of synergy between the conscious and unconscious mind, the latter generating possible options unconsciously and the conscious deliberating between them or rejecting them all together.
H and D are irrelevant. Who are the prestigious neuroscientists that are driving this?
.                                                                                                                                        H and D are irrelevant but they are quite literally, considered as authoritative amongst the New Atheists. One of the neoroscientists mentioned to deny free will in the book is Gabriel Kreiman. Quite ironically, Benjamin Libet who performed the infamous experiment pertaining to how we already made our mind regarding choices before being aware about it, noted that the conscious have the ability to veto the choice made by the unconscious.
 

Severian

Taxiarches
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
6,642
Reaction score
1
Points
38
Website
www.lsocs.co.uk
"Meditations on First Philosophy" by Rene Descartes

"LotR: the Two Towers" by JRR Tolkien (took me forever to finish "The Fellowship of the Ring," but I'm reading through the second volume at a reasonable pace)

"The Birth of Christ and the Birth of Man" by Fr. Matta Al-Meskeen

I'm also rereading the four Gospels
 

biro

Protostrator
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
23,463
Reaction score
144
Points
63
Age
47
Website
archiveofourown.org
It's a mystery about some creepy secrets in a family. It's okay, but not her best. My favorite books of hers are "Careless in Red," "Playing for the Ashes" and "This Body of Death." I'd read those instead of "Believing."
 

Friedrich

Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
93
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
27
Location
Germany
'The Moviegoer by Walter Percy

Though, I do wish he'd go on and make his point already. I have little interest in New Orleans politics nor do I quite see the point of so much exposition. *sighs* I can be so impatient.
 

LenInSebastopol

Protokentarchos
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
3,596
Reaction score
0
Points
0
biro said:
It's a mystery about some creepy secrets in a family. It's okay, but not her best. My favorite books of hers are "Careless in Red," "Playing for the Ashes" and "This Body of Death." I'd read those instead of "Believing."
Thanks.
 

copticorthodoxboy

High Elder
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
610
Reaction score
1
Points
16
Still making my way through "Game of Thrones" but also picked up a few new books today at the library.

*"The Triads: The Growing Global Threat from the Chinese Criminal Societies" by Martin Booth
*"Tongs, Gangs, and Triads: Chinese Crime Groups in North America" by Peter Huston
*"Play Winning Chess" by Yasser Seirawan
*"The Art of Learning: A Journey in the Pursuit of Excellence" by Josh Waitzkin
*"Origins: Fourteen Billion Years of Cosmic Evolution" by Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Donald Goldsmith
 

Asteriktos

Strategos
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
39,563
Reaction score
314
Points
83
Acts and the History of Earliest Christianity, by Martin Hengel
 

biro

Protostrator
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
23,463
Reaction score
144
Points
63
Age
47
Website
archiveofourown.org
Stella Cameron, "Folly"

Also, I've started over again in my Bible audiobook from Audible. I'm in Genesis.
 

kelly

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
3,812
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Robert Massie's biography of Catherine the Great
 

kelly

Protokentarchos
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
3,812
Reaction score
0
Points
36
biro said:
kelly said:
Robert Massie's biography of Catherine the Great
I like Robert Massie.
He's a bit of a jerk but he does write good books (except his second book on the Romanovs, which was written in a hurry, and it shows)
 

LenInSebastopol

Protokentarchos
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
3,596
Reaction score
0
Points
0
littlepilgrim64 said:
Father Arseny (1893-1973): Priest, Prisoner, Spiritual Father
c

Just got it, highly recommended by my son who no longer even  goes to his Protestant church!
Go figure.
 
Top