What Would The Catholic Church Have To Concede?

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ialmisry

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dzheremi said:
Judging from my grandmother's looks, I'm guessing Scandinavian. According to family history/legend, that side were in Greenland for centuries and only left beautiful downtown Nuuk or wherever for America roughly 100 years ago (~20 years before my grandmother was born). My middle name comes from Erik the Red (though it's Anglicized), who they say is a distant relative. I'm not sure I believe that, but maybe I'm just proof that you shouldn't marry into families full of squat Latin people if you want to retain your Nordic giantness and translucentivity.

Oh whatever, spell check. You know what I mean.
Me too, though it seems my sons are reversing the trend.  Except I have the blue eyes.
 

dzheremi

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theistgal said:
ialmisry said:
we don't have apparitions to abandon.
Sure you do.  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=46216.0

http://youtu.be/QnwJTGTmMDo

Just because you personally don't like them doesn't mean they don't happen.
I missed where any of these apparitions introduced changes in practice or new devotions comparable to the widespread "Sacred Heart" and other devotions well known to the Latins of your communion, to say nothing of the more blatantly offensive calls to convert whole nations to Roman Catholicism. Nice try, but I don't think they're directly comparable.
 

theistgal

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dzheremi said:
theistgal said:
ialmisry said:
we don't have apparitions to abandon.
Sure you do.  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=46216.0

http://youtu.be/QnwJTGTmMDo

Just because you personally don't like them doesn't mean they don't happen.
I missed where any of these apparitions introduced changes in practice or new devotions comparable to the widespread "Sacred Heart" and other devotions well known to the Latins of your communion, to say nothing of the more blatantly offensive calls to convert whole nations to Roman Catholicism. Nice try, but I don't think they're directly comparable.
I didn't say they did. But it was stated that Catholics would have to give up all their apparitions. No one clarified, "except the ones that didn't introduce any new devotions or practices".  Tit for tat.  8)
 

dzheremi

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Why would that need to be specified? That's the entire problem with RCC apparitions in the first place. It's not like when some devout Catholic somewhere swears up and down that they see the image of the Virgin Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich, any of us (RC or EO or OO) have to rush out and condemn it, because that's an obvious case of crazy. The problem is with the apparitions that your communion has accepted, and the aberrations that flow from them. If it were a matter of apparitions that don't declare this or that or pass secret messages on to Portuguese school girls or whatever, we most likely would not be having this conversation. If you want to believe that the Theotokos chills out with you and watches over you as you knit and watch TV or something, that's up to you, but the second some apparition opens its ghost-mouth and says "I am the immaculate conception!", we have the right and the duty to say "Nope. No way. Not acceptable. Everyone who believes in Orthodoxy should run away from this thing, right away."

 

augustin717

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Kniaziev, Lossky maybe even Evdokimov, also Bulgakov had no problem with the Lourdes apparitions . That is to say they look more trustworthy than a Copt in NM.
 

Wandile

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ialmisry said:
Wandile said:
Some of the demands here are interesting. What I find most disturbing are that some of these demands impose on the traditions of the Roman church. (Byzantinization)

imagine upon reunion, Rome demanded all eastern churches to keep a celebate clergy, to use a new liturgy, to abandon all post schism saints and apparitions etc... Sometimes its better to avoid conflict if such practices are not contradictory to your own doctrine. We have different traditions and they must be respected :)
says who?

we don't have apparitions to abandon. That's why you would have to abandon yours.
hmmm even Photius agrees to the idea that sometimes things are just some differently in the east and west and both traditions should be respected
 

AntoniousNikolas

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
Maybe the celibacy thing. But the new liturgy or at least a renewed liturgy is a must. This won't do.
+100

dzheremi said:
You don't have to give anything up to be Orthodox save the things you shouldn't have adopted in the first place, because they were never true to begin with.
Right, like the farce that xOrthodox4Christx linked to above.  Leaving all other issues aside for a moment, since for me lex orandi, lex credendi, I could conceive of being in communion with this, but never in a billion years this.
 

Maria

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Wandile said:
Married men can't get ordained even as a priest in an eastern church in Poland?
It was big news when JPII was still alive and when Cardinal Soldano forbade Byzantine Catholic married men from being ordained to the Priesthood in Poland.
 

ialmisry

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Wandile said:
ialmisry said:
Wandile said:
Some of the demands here are interesting. What I find most disturbing are that some of these demands impose on the traditions of the Roman church. (Byzantinization)

imagine upon reunion, Rome demanded all eastern churches to keep a celebate clergy, to use a new liturgy, to abandon all post schism saints and apparitions etc... Sometimes its better to avoid conflict if such practices are not contradictory to your own doctrine. We have different traditions and they must be respected :)
says who?

we don't have apparitions to abandon. That's why you would have to abandon yours.
hmmm even Photius agrees to the idea that sometimes things are just some differently in the east and west and both traditions should be respected
key word and emphasis: sometimes, and only when they do not contradict dogma.
 

BTRAKAS

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orthodox4life said:
Do any of you, who've been Orthodox for awhile, really believe that the Catholics would ever concede?
No.  The Roman Catholic Church will not compromise what Orthodox Christianity views as innovations. Not in the foreseeable future; something drastic on the world scene would have to change for the Roman Catholic Church to considered changes to accommodate Eastern Orthodox concerns.

What the Roman Catholic Church seeks is to bring Eastern Orthodoxy into its embrace under its current structure, akin to the manner in which their Byzantine Rites exist within the Roman Catholic Church.

Never-the-less, I don't think this should diminish the importance of Eastern Orthodoxy maintaining dialogue, the "Dialogue of Love," with the Roman Catholic Church, neither should it preclude non-ecclesial, joint initiatives, to promote traditional Trinitarian Christian witness to the world, which suffers from secularism and the scourge of the Moslems.
 

sheenj

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Wandile said:
ialmisry said:
Wandile said:
Some of the demands here are interesting. What I find most disturbing are that some of these demands impose on the traditions of the Roman church. (Byzantinization)

imagine upon reunion, Rome demanded all eastern churches to keep a celebate clergy, to use a new liturgy, to abandon all post schism saints and apparitions etc... Sometimes its better to avoid conflict if such practices are not contradictory to your own doctrine. We have different traditions and they must be respected :)
says who?

we don't have apparitions to abandon. That's why you would have to abandon yours.
hmmm even Photius agrees to the idea that sometimes things are just some differently in the east and west and both traditions should be respected
Unfortunately, the Vatican has a long history of doing just the opposite.
 

podkarpatska

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Michał Kalina said:
Maria said:
How would that happen without compromises being made such as the New Calendar imposition?
Catholics do not even have unified calendar among themselves.
Quite true. The Ruthenian Green Catholics in Slovakia are MOSTLY all on the full western calendar, including the Paschalion, while their counterparts in Transcarpathia (Muchachevo) are entirely on the full-blown Julian calendar including the Paschalion. Both eparchies are the ones which submitted to Rome under the Union of Uzhorod.  Go figure.
 

theistgal

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dzheremi said:
Why would that need to be specified? That's the entire problem with RCC apparitions in the first place. It's not like when some devout Catholic somewhere swears up and down that they see the image of the Virgin Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich, any of us (RC or EO or OO) have to rush out and condemn it, because that's an obvious case of crazy. The problem is with the apparitions that your communion has accepted, and the aberrations that flow from them. If it were a matter of apparitions that don't declare this or that or pass secret messages on to Portuguese school girls or whatever, we most likely would not be having this conversation. If you want to believe that the Theotokos chills out with you and watches over you as you knit and watch TV or something, that's up to you, but the second some apparition opens its ghost-mouth and says "I am the immaculate conception!", we have the right and the duty to say "Nope. No way. Not acceptable. Everyone who believes in Orthodoxy should run away from this thing, right away."
I disagree with about 85% of what you said there; will let you guess which 15% I agreed with.
 
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