Who is more disliked?

[Wyatt]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Church not like us (all "Catholics" in our sense of the word) or just the Latin Catholics, or do you dislike the Eastern Catholics even worse, seeing them as horrible traitors? Or is it really all just about the Pope? Is that the hitch? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ or heretics and/or apostates, or pagans? Are we Christians in the eyes of your Church?

 

[Katechon]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Church not like us (all "Catholics" in our sense of the word) or just the Latin Catholics, or do you dislike the Eastern Catholics even worse, seeing them as horrible traitors? Or is it really all just about the Pope? Is that the hitch? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ or heretics and/or apostates, or pagans? Are we Christians in the eyes of your Church?

Who are "we"?

 

[Dominika]

So much generalisations... My mother is Latin Catholic, many my close friends are Latin Catholic, I have a few friends and aquitances Eastern Catholic, we share soem commong thigns like some fasting, featss, and above all the same perspetcive on e.g some mroal things in this more and more secular world, so?...

 

[LizaSymonenko]

The Orthodox do not dislike anyone... we simply pray for those whom are lost, that they should also find the joy of the True Church of Christ and join us.

 

[J Michael]

Who are "we"?

Uh...Catholics, as in those of us Christians in communion with Rome. I think the OP was pretty clear on that.

 

[Alpo2]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Church not like us (all "Catholics" in our sense of the word) or just the Latin Catholics, or do you dislike the Eastern Catholics even worse, seeing them as horrible traitors? Or is it really all just about the Pope? Is that the hitch? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ or heretics and/or apostates, or pagans? Are we Christians in the eyes of your Church?

If you need to ask this you need to log off from internets. Nobody nowhere actively thinks about what some other religious group might be or do.

FWIW, for me Catholics are heretics. Does this kind of abstract concept have any meaningful effect to anything? Not really.

 

[RaphaCam]

I do tend to troll Eastern Catholics more harshly, but disliking them? Nah...

 

[J Michael]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Church not like us (all "Catholics" in our sense of the word) or just the Latin Catholics, or do you dislike the Eastern Catholics even worse, seeing them as horrible traitors? Or is it really all just about the Pope? Is that the hitch? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ or heretics and/or apostates, or pagans? Are we Christians in the eyes of your Church?

What's to dislike?

 

[Luke]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Church not like us (all "Catholics" in our sense of the word) or just the Latin Catholics, or do you dislike the Eastern Catholics even worse, seeing them as horrible traitors? Or is it really all just about the Pope?

I dislike beets more than anything.

 

[Ainnir]

Does the Eastern Orthodox Church not like us (all "Catholics" in our sense of the word) or just the Latin Catholics, or do you dislike the Eastern Catholics even worse, seeing them as horrible traitors? Or is it really all just about the Pope? Is that the hitch? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ or heretics and/or apostates, or pagans? Are we Christians in the eyes of your Church?

I wouldn't know. Catholicism doesn't come up much in my day-to-day parish experience. I try to avoid thinking about groups in monolithic terms anyway.

For me personally, Catholicism of any flavor is in the "not Orthodox" box, and I don't worry too much about it. Catholic people are easier to deal with as they are at least familiar with a Sacramental life, unlike many here in the Bible Belt. I don't believe the two lungs theory, nor that they're so interchangeable that I can go to a Catholic parish and be fine. But neither am I quick to sling the word "heretic" around. I'm happy to let God sort us out at the end of days, spending my time struggling to be something that might even slightly approach acceptable to Him when that Day comes.

 

[Wyatt]

Are Catholics Christians? Yes or no? Would you pray with us in a non-liturgical setting? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ even though we don't agree on everything? Say, for example, if there was a group of Catholic and Orthodox Christians at a meal, and we were saying Grace, would you pray with us, or separate from us silently lest you pray with heretics?

 

[Wyatt]

I dislike beets more than anything.

But beets are delicious and nutritious. That's a shame.

 

[Ainnir]

Are Catholics Christians? Yes or no? Would you pray with us in a non-liturgical setting? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ even though we don't agree on everything? Say, for example, if there was a group of Catholic and Orthodox Christians at a meal, and we were saying Grace, would you pray with us, or separate from us silently lest you pray with heretics?

Why are you so insistent on asking? It seems like you're waiting for a fight.

 

[hurrrah]

Are Catholics Christians?

In the exact sense of the word - no. Catholics are heretics who have retained the Christian name, but have renounced its power.

 

[Ainnir]

Well, there you go, Wyatt.

 

[RaphaCam]

Are Catholics Christians? Yes or no?

In a very relevant sense, yes.

Would you pray with us in a non-liturgical setting?

No, but you can pray with us, even in a liturgical setting.

Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ even though we don't agree on everything?

No, but yes to universal siblings in Adam.

Say, for example, if there was a group of Catholic and Orthodox Christians at a meal, and we were saying Grace, would you pray with us, or separate from us silently lest you pray with heretics?

I will discretely pray by myself.

 

[Wyatt]

Fair enough. At least you're honest. I appreciate that.

 

[Wyatt]

Why are you so insistent on asking? It seems like you're waiting for a fight.

Respectfully, I have been a member of this forum for quite some time, and just wanted to see what the spirit of the forum is now compared to when I first started participating years ago. I know now.

 

[Ainnir]

Respectfully, I have been a member of this forum for quite some time, and just wanted to see what the spirit of the forum is now compared to when I first started participating years ago. I know now.

I was being facetious about hurrah's post, for the record.

Am I Christian? That's the question that most concerns me. There can't be a yes or no question about a blanket status. It doesn't work like that. Do I believe Orthodoxy is the filter? Yes. That doesn't mean everyone "inside" is just dandy. As I said, I'm 100% happy to leave this up to God.

Personally, I can't say, "Hey, it's not big deal; we're all the same." But neither do I regard Catholics as heretics. So, somewhere in between. I would not shun, but neither would I unnecessarily join a heterodox prayer gathering. But my aunt and uncle are Catholic. I went to a wedding, I would join in prayer at a meal, etc. I can always add something inwardly if it seems needful. I do this when we visit my Protestant parents.

All people are children of God. I prefer to focus on this and show love as best I can. It doesn't mean pluralism or relativism is ok, but that there is a commonality we all share. "In Christ" is trickier. Are RCs brothers and sisters like my Orthodox brethren? No, I'm sorry. I don't intend to be hurtful.

May God direct our steps.

 

[Opus118]

Are Catholics Christians? Yes or no? Would you pray with us in a non-liturgical setting? Do you consider us Brothers and Sisters in Christ even though we don't agree on everything? Say, for example, if there was a group of Catholic and Orthodox Christians at a meal, and we were saying Grace, would you pray with us, or separate from us silently lest you pray with heretics?

Yes on all examples.

 

[Wyatt]

I was being facetious about hurrah's post, for the record.

Am I Christian? That's the question that most concerns me. There can't be a yes or no question about a blanket status. It doesn't work like that. Do I believe Orthodoxy is the filter? Yes. That doesn't mean everyone "inside" is just dandy. As I said, I'm 100% happy to leave this up to God.

Personally, I can't say, "Hey, it's not big deal; we're all the same." But neither do I regard Catholics as heretics. So, somewhere in between. I would not shun, but neither would I unnecessarily join a heterodox prayer gathering. But my aunt and uncle are Catholic. I went to a wedding, I would join in prayer at a meal, etc. I can always add something inwardly if it seems needful. I do this when we visit my Protestant parents.

All people are children of God. I prefer to focus on this and show love as best I can. It doesn't mean pluralism or relativism is ok, but that there is a commonality we all share. "In Christ" is trickier. Are RCs brothers and sisters like my Orthodox brethren? No, I'm sorry. I don't intend to be hurtful.

May God direct our steps.

I didn't say "like our Orthodox brothers and sisters." Are we Brothers and Sisters in Christ? Yes or no? I consider Methodists fellow Christians even though I don't agree with them doctinally 100%. You're trying to make something nuanced that's simple. To Orthodox Christians, are we Christians in any way? I ask because a real life friend of mine who is Orthodox has suggested we aren't because, according to him, since we have an inaccurate view of the Trinity due to the filioque, we worship a different or "false" Christ. Is this the Orthodox Church's position?

 

[Bizzlebin]

Respectfully, I have been a member of this forum for quite some time, and just wanted to see what the spirit of the forum is now compared to when I first started participating years ago. I know now.

You'll find a great many spirits on this forum, heh; not much has changed there. But hopefully you'll also find answers to questions you may have, some good fellowship, etc—even if you have to filter out a lot to get it. No 2 people *ever* have the same faith entirely—not even saints—but we are hopefully working towards unity, which is not found in comparing different errors, but in us all striving to acquire the Holy Spirit and live a life given wholly to Jesus Christ, to the glory of God His Father.

 

[Wyatt]

The thing that seems to happen on any forum I get on (Catholic or Orthodox) is I end up feeling farther away from Christ and the Church because it is always some feeling of hopelessness or never being a Christian "correctly."

Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers.

 

[hurrrah]

Lol. You start this conversation yourself, and now you're getting into a martyr's pose?

 

[Alpo2]

The thing that seems to happen on any forum I get on (Catholic or Orthodox) is I end up feeling farther away from Christ and the Church because it is always some feeling of hopelessness or never being a Christian "correctly."

At some point I stopped reading and discussing dogmatics and pretty much theology in general. It made me more happy. AFAIK we're both laymen in a highly hierarchical and archaic religious institutions. Make use of it. Let the clergy deal with these kind of issues. That's what they're paid for lol.

 

[Ainnir]

The thing that seems to happen on any forum I get on (Catholic or Orthodox) is I end up feeling farther away from Christ and the Church because it is always some feeling of hopelessness or never being a Christian "correctly."

Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers.

Don’t try to find Christ on the internet. That is what prayer is for.

 

[RaphaCam]

I didn't say "like our Orthodox brothers and sisters." Are we Brothers and Sisters in Christ? Yes or no? I consider Methodists fellow Christians even though I don't agree with them doctinally 100%. You're trying to make something nuanced that's simple. To Orthodox Christians, are we Christians in any way? I ask because a real life friend of mine who is Orthodox has suggested we aren't because, according to him, since we have an inaccurate view of the Trinity due to the filioque, we worship a different or "false" Christ. Is this the Orthodox Church's position?

The Church Fathers make a very consistent distinction between Christians and people who are of similar faith, but not inside the Church. See, for instance, the acts of the Seventh Council of Carthage under St. Cyprian of Carthage, whose decision on baptism was not made ecumenical, but which also show a very clear mindset that, to my knowledge, hasn't been countered by other Holy Fathers. Actually, it was explicitly confirmed by St. Augustine of Hippo.

However, many Fathers were extremely cautious in judging heterodox Christians. In the 20th century, Elder Cleopa of Sihastrie even explicitly claimed they can be saved by their faith in whatever is left of Orthodox Christianity in their respective traditions, but the same applies even to Jews. Orthodox canons and common uncanonised practices make clear distinctions between mainstream heterodox Christians and other people outside the Church, too.

Also, there is an aspect that in daily life speaks louder than church practice: for cultural and social matters, specially in the West, there is special affinity among Orthodox Christians and Heterodox Christians. I like to see this as a special recognition of the brotherhood in Adam, since they're much, much closer to God's will than other people outside the Church, which speaks to us Orthodox Christians in many aspects.

 

[Katechon]

Heresy is a specific sin, requiring not only erronous doctrine, but also a degree of obstinancy.

 

[LizaSymonenko]

The thing that seems to happen on any forum I get on (Catholic or Orthodox) is I end up feeling farther away from Christ and the Church because it is always some feeling of hopelessness or never being a Christian "correctly."

Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers.

You started this topic... asking for people's true opinions... and you got them.

Nobody went after you, or disparaged your Faith out of the blue... they simply gave you their own opinions.

You need to take a look at yourself and ask why you started this topic in the first place?

Was it to create a bond with your "brothers and sisters" in Christ... or did you actually intend to widen the rift?

Everything people have written is "old news"... but, YOU need to review your purpose behind this topic.... you need to address (with yourself) your possible underlying desire to see us at each other's throats.

 

[recent convert]

Personally, I do not dislike Roman Catholics & other rites in communion with the Pope. I believe they are Christians and not heretics. There are non Orthodox aspects of Roman Catholic theology that I believe can never be reconciled and would only be achieved by a false ecumenism that would sacrifice our respective Christian faiths.

I have the same basic perspective towards Protestants but that is so varied I wouldn’t know where to begin. For ex. I believe the late Billy Graham was Christian but consider Joel Osteen a heretic ( I don’t dislike him though).

 

[biro]

Trolling is definitely a sign of dislike. I mean, come on.

Don’t want to listen to him? Put him on Ignore.

But that would spoil your ‘fun.’

 

[J Michael]

Trolling is definitely a sign of dislike. I mean, come on.

Don’t want to listen to him? Put him on Ignore.

But that would spoil your ‘fun.’

??? I'm confused...
To whom are addressing those comments?

 

[RaphaCam]

Trolling is definitely a sign of dislike. I mean, come on.

Don’t want to listen to him? Put him on Ignore.

But that would spoil your ‘fun.’

I was specifically talking about my Eastern Catholic friends, who also troll me fondly. I'm too busy and soft-hearted to troll people I don't know.

 

[Wyatt]

You started this topic... asking for people's true opinions... and you got them.

Nobody went after you, or disparaged your Faith out of the blue... they simply gave you their own opinions.

You need to take a look at yourself and ask why you started this topic in the first place?

Was it to create a bond with your "brothers and sisters" in Christ... or did you actually intend to widen the rift?

Everything people have written is "old news"... but, YOU need to review your purpose behind this topic.... you need to address (with yourself) your possible underlying desire to see us at each other's throats.

You're right. Maybe I am struggling. These are rough times in general IRL outside this forum. I'm feeling hopeless and looking for answers. So yes, I guess this is just a self-indulgent thread that could be closed. Fair enough.

 

[Stinky]

Lord have mercy.

 

[LizaSymonenko]

You're right. Maybe I am struggling. These are rough times in general IRL outside this forum. I'm feeling hopeless and looking for answers. So yes, I guess this is just a self-indulgent thread that could be closed. Fair enough.

So Wyatt... I feel bad that you feel "hopeless"... but, know that stirring up trouble will not help the situation.

If you feel hopeless... as many of us do right now... just refocus on Christ. Do not let those negative, empty, hopeless thoughts dominate your mind.

Remember, we are here for only a short period of our existence. No matter how sad or terrible or frightening things may appear.... we know that we are not long for this world one way or another. Know that Christ has conquered everything you see around you... and that He allows these things to happen only because He has given Man freewill... and yet... no a bird falls from the sky without Him knowing and caring.

Therefore, rest assured... that the Lord has His eyes upon you, and knows the fear and trepidation within your heart (and many others')... just turn to Him... refocus your feelings of insecurity upon feelings of security... pray a bit more... for even if we are not able to focus on the words... the recitation of them does trickle into our hearts and reaches our souls.... and grants us comfort.

When it gets dark, light a candle before your icons... and let that warmth seep into your body.

You've got this...

...and if you just want to talk... we are all here for you... and we are praying for, and with you.

 

[TheTrisagion]

I don't really think about what Roman Catholics are or are not. My wife and children are United Methodist, and I don't really think about what they are or are not. It isn't really helpful to my walk with Christ or their walk with Christ. I do my best to follow the rules that the Church has put forward for me. I don't go out of my way to worship with non-Orthodox people, but I'm certainly not going to avoid praying with my wife or children. I definitely draw the line with the sacraments. I would never partake of any sacrament outside of Orthodoxy regardless of who might want me to do it. It's my duty to love everyone the best way that I can. I can disagree with people and still love them, but trying to figure out what label I need to put on what person is really not helpful for anyone.

 

[Wyatt]

I guess perhaps things have changed. It used to be different on this forum. Liza, I appreciate the prayers, but surely you know what I am talking about, right? You were around during the time of ialmisry and there were others. I'm willing to forgive and forget as long as I or anyone else from my Church don't get treated with less dignity because we are RC or EC rather then EO or OO. That's all I've ever wanted was a place of mutual compassion, but I realize the irony of that and this combative-sounding thread. I feel isolated from everyone. My Dad, who was Catholic and joined the Church with me, has been dead since 2015, I haven't been to Church for awhile for personal reasons, and things have just spiraled down. On top of that, I've had multiple Christians say, speaking with a very broad brush, that anyone who receives the vaccine either has taken the precursor of the Mark of the Beast (an Orthodox friend used this term), and online have been told I've taken the Mark of the Beast. I'm just trying to preserve life as long as possible and protect other people, but now I'm apparently going to be set on fire for all eternity for getting a few shots. For a partial example of what I am talking about, just look at the current exchange on my profile page between Myy and myself. Seriously...wth? I feel bad, and everything I do makes me feel worse, and I'm always wrong according to someone or according to someone who supposedly knows the fullness of the mind and heart of Christ, which I do not believe anyone fully knows, but plenty of people act as though they do.

I have as my faith "Catholic," but it could just as easily go towards "none" because, frankly, with everything going on I feel like throwing in the towel on religion...even after my personal issues get better (assuming they do).

 

[Stinky]

I guess perhaps things have changed. It used to be different on this forum. Liza, I appreciate the prayers, but surely you know what I am talking about, right? You were around during the time of ialmisry and there were others. I'm willing to forgive and forget as long as I or anyone else from my Church don't get treated with less dignity because we are RC or EC rather then EO or OO. That's all I've ever wanted was a place of mutual compassion, but I realize the irony of that and this combative-sounding thread. I feel isolated from everyone. My Dad, who was Catholic and joined the Church with me, has been dead since 2015, I haven't been to Church for awhile for personal reasons, and things have just spiraled down. On top of that, I've had multiple Christians say, speaking with a very broad brush, that anyone who receives the vaccine either has taken the precursor of the Mark of the Beast (an Orthodox friend used this term), and online have been told I've taken the Mark of the Beast. I'm just trying to preserve life as long as possible and protect other people, but now I'm apparently going to be set on fire for all eternity for getting a few shots. For a partial example of what I am talking about, just look at the current exchange on my profile page between Myy and myself. Seriously...wth? I feel bad, and everything I do makes me feel worse, and I'm always wrong according to someone or according to someone who supposedly knows the fullness of the mind and heart of Christ, which I do not believe anyone fully knows, but plenty of people act as though they do.

I have as my faith "Catholic," but it could just as easily go towards "none" because, frankly, with everything going on I feel like throwing in the towel on religion...even after my personal issues get better (assuming they do).

Rest assured. Nothing has changed. People will still point fingers and accuse others of wrong. Our desire is to be accepted in Christ, to live for His glory, to seek His light, to walk His path in this dark world. There will be sheep and goats/wheat and tares until the end. God will sort it all out. Until then we keep the faith. We step forward one step at a time, calling on His grace through the Holy Spirit. Know that we must choose the approval of our Creator over the approval of man. God's grace lead us: Forgiving those who misunderstand us. Love even when we are accused or condemned. Follow Christ Jesus's example. Pick up our cross and follow our Lord Jesus.
Pray for me, I pray for you.

 

[Opus118]

I guess perhaps things have changed. It used to be different on this forum. Liza, I appreciate the prayers, but surely you know what I am talking about, right? You were around during the time of ialmisry and there were others. I'm willing to forgive and forget as long as I or anyone else from my Church don't get treated with less dignity because we are RC or EC rather then EO or OO. That's all I've ever wanted was a place of mutual compassion, but I realize the irony of that and this combative-sounding thread. I feel isolated from everyone. My Dad, who was Catholic and joined the Church with me, has been dead since 2015, I haven't been to Church for awhile for personal reasons, and things have just spiraled down. On top of that, I've had multiple Christians say, speaking with a very broad brush, that anyone who receives the vaccine either has taken the precursor of the Mark of the Beast (an Orthodox friend used this term), and online have been told I've taken the Mark of the Beast. I'm just trying to preserve life as long as possible and protect other people, but now I'm apparently going to be set on fire for all eternity for getting a few shots. For a partial example of what I am talking about, just look at the current exchange on my profile page between Myy and myself. Seriously...wth? I feel bad, and everything I do makes me feel worse, and I'm always wrong according to someone or according to someone who supposedly knows the fullness of the mind and heart of Christ, which I do not believe anyone fully knows, but plenty of people act as though they do.

I have as my faith "Catholic," but it could just as easily go towards "none" because, frankly, with everything going on I feel like throwing in the towel on religion...even after my personal issues get better (assuming they do).

Personally, I think you are OK. Ialmisry is still around but his view point is only sometimes worthwhile paying attention to. Also, personally, anyone who thinks that vaccines are the mark of the beast, are the mark of the beast. I can't imagine why they are picking on you about this issue and not the Orthodox Church itself.

Best wishes