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Who sins?

Svartzorn

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I have read somewhere that our bodies do not sin, they only function as a vehicle for our fallen souls, which produce sin in the first place.
Is this correct? Sin happens in the body or just in the soul?
 

RaphaCam

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This is not a familiar idea to me, it actually sounds a bit like a too radical separation between body and soul to say the body can't sin, since we are soul and body and both soul and body have fallen, but I may be wrong. I have never explicitly heard the opposite, though.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
"If your eye causes you to sin..."
I thought about that, but it's not like "if your eyes sin", although there's a vastly used prayer which talks about body parts and sins, but I don't recall the language.
 

Mor Ephrem

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RaphaCam said:
Mor Ephrem said:
"If your eye causes you to sin..."
I thought about that, but it's not like "if your eyes sin", although there's a vastly used prayer which talks about body parts and sins, but I don't recall the language.
The point is that it's not just one or the other "part" of you that sins.  It's you. 
 

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Sinning with the body is the best part.  Otherwise the body has the fun and the brain (the real "you") just senses it.
 

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Mor Ephrem said:
RaphaCam said:
Mor Ephrem said:
"If your eye causes you to sin..."
I thought about that, but it's not like "if your eyes sin", although there's a vastly used prayer which talks about body parts and sins, but I don't recall the language.
The point is that it's not just one or the other "part" of you that sins.  It's you. 
Unless it's nocturnal emission what is strictly a biological thing without any control whatsoever yet it's still considered a sin.

One can probably add periods or miscarriage as well.
 

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mike said:
Mor Ephrem said:
RaphaCam said:
Mor Ephrem said:
"If your eye causes you to sin..."
I thought about that, but it's not like "if your eyes sin", although there's a vastly used prayer which talks about body parts and sins, but I don't recall the language.
The point is that it's not just one or the other "part" of you that sins.  It's you. 
Unless it's nocturnal emission what is strictly a biological thing without any control whatsoever yet it's still considered a sin.

One can probably add periods or miscarriage as well.
Moral sin is a matter of the will, in one direction or another. The holy Fathers speak of the problem of will extensively and explicitly. Even when St. Paul uses "sarx" in his famous discourse to the Romans, it's very clear from context and consistent usage that he intends passions to which the will is attached. Elsewhere, he speaks more plainly, of "works of the flesh,"  i.e., results of our wills combining with the passions in guilty error. Compare and contrast this with e.g. II Cor 6:1 and the "work" results of combining our wills with God's.
 

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Sexual desires? ...
 

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Svartzorn said:
I have read somewhere that our bodies do not sin, they only function as a vehicle for our fallen souls, which produce sin in the first place.
Is this correct? Sin happens in the body or just in the soul?
It is incorrect. Man is an immortal whole. Where did you read it?
 

Mor Ephrem

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mike said:
Mor Ephrem said:
RaphaCam said:
Mor Ephrem said:
"If your eye causes you to sin..."
I thought about that, but it's not like "if your eyes sin", although there's a vastly used prayer which talks about body parts and sins, but I don't recall the language.
The point is that it's not just one or the other "part" of you that sins.  It's you. 
Unless it's nocturnal emission what is strictly a biological thing without any control whatsoever yet it's still considered a sin.

One can probably add periods or miscarriage as well.
That's really a different issue: whether sin is only a matter of making wrong choices or also a condition which affects people subject to it.  But in any case, it's not "mike's body" which is having a nocturnal emission or a period, as if "mike" is something entirely other. 
 

Svartzorn

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Thanks for your answers, everybody.
@O'Doran: I don't recall it. But I guess it goes back to fasting as a spiritual discipline for both the body and the soul. There's not really a point in making this separation as if the body was just an empty shell.
As mike has mentioned, still I think that will is dispensable when it comes to sinning, as he pointed a good example of manifestation of our fallen beings for which we must repent.
 

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Svartzorn said:
Thanks for your answers, everybody.
@O'Doran: I don't recall it. But I guess it goes back to fasting as a spiritual discipline for both the body and the soul. There's not really a point in making this separation as if the body was just an empty shell.
As mike has mentioned, still I think that will is dispensable when it comes to sinning, as he pointed a good example of manifestation of our fallen beings for which we must repent.
Not only am I unwilling to admit he gave good examples, I am not sure he gave examples at all.
 

AntoniousNikolas

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Svartzorn said:
I have read somewhere that our bodies do not sin, they only function as a vehicle for our fallen souls, which produce sin in the first place.
Is this correct? Sin happens in the body or just in the soul?
Man is a psychosomatic whole.  We can't say "the body sins" or "the soul sins" as if they were independent entities.  Man sins.  Remember Rabbi Judah and Marcus Aurelius from the Talmud?

Antoninus [Marcus Aurelius] said to Rabbi Judah the Prince: Body and soul can evade responsibility. How? The body says: The soul sinned. From the day it left me, I have lain still as a stone in the grave. And the soul says: The body sinned. From the day it left me, I have flitted in the air like a bird. Rabbi Judah answered the emperor with a parable: A flesh-and-blood king has a beautiful orchard laden with luscious fruit. He appoints two guards, one lame and the other blind. The lame one says to the blind one: I see luscious fruit in the orchard. Put me on your shoulders and we will gather and eat. The lame man is hoisted up by the blind man, and they go to the fruit and eat. The owner of the orchard appears one day and asks: Where is my luscious fruit? The lame guard answers: Do I have legs to walk? The blind guard answers: Do I have eyes to see? What did [the king] do? He placed the lame guard on the shoulders of the blind guard and judged them as one. So God takes the soul, injects it into the body, and judges them as one.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_91.html
 

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Svartzorn said:
I have read somewhere that our bodies do not sin, they only function as a vehicle for our fallen souls, which produce sin in the first place.
Is this correct? Sin happens in the body or just in the soul?
In my opinion the sin affect the soul but it is not in body, the only sin in body according to the Bible is the fornication:

1Cor. 6:18: Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

 
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