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Why Are You Mad At God

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Fabio Leite said:
[

And it sure is not.

Have you deciphered that age old question? What do women want?
I have in part. They want a rewrite of Genesis from he shall rule over you to he is equal to you.

A shame the bible does not recognize the equality of souls and that Christian men know nothing of justice or morality.

Regards
DL
 

Apples

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Greatest I am said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
Are you not to love your enemy?

If so, seems that your God is a sociopath as he is letter Satan run around even after condemnation.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Your statement is rather strange though. Have you never forgiven someone?
Was that the same as letting them get away with it?

Regards
DL
Have I ever forgiven anyone? I don't know. Christians do a bad job of defining forgiveness, which is disappointing given that their religion mentions it as a requirement of salvation so often.

Does it mean I have to invite the guy who killed my parents to the church fishing trip because he said "lol sorry," or does it mean that I shouldn't want to beat someone up over laughing at me? Does it forego punishment or not? Does it necessitate genuine remorse on the other person's part, or not? I've seen conflicting sources indicating all of the above.
 

Apples

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TheTrisagion said:
Greatest I am said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
Are you not to love your enemy?

If so, seems that your God is a sociopath as he is letter Satan run around even after condemnation.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Your statement is rather strange though. Have you never forgiven someone?
Was that the same as letting them get away with it?

Regards
DL
In the event you hadn't noticed:

Faith: None
William is our latest resident atheist.
No.
 

TheTrisagion

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William said:
TheTrisagion said:
Greatest I am said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
Are you not to love your enemy?

If so, seems that your God is a sociopath as he is letter Satan run around even after condemnation.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Your statement is rather strange though. Have you never forgiven someone?
Was that the same as letting them get away with it?

Regards
DL
In the event you hadn't noticed:

Faith: None
William is our latest resident atheist.
No.
Sorry my bad.

William is our latest resident recently departed atheist.
 

Hawkeye

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Greatest I am said:
I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian
What does that actually mean? Do you perhaps have a catechism or an exposition of your faith you can point me towards?

I see your distaste of God as presented in the Old Testament and various related issues but I'm finding that I don't quite know where you're coming from.

What is a Gnostic Christian?
 
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William said:
Greatest I am said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
Are you not to love your enemy?

If so, seems that your God is a sociopath as he is letter Satan run around even after condemnation.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Your statement is rather strange though. Have you never forgiven someone?
Was that the same as letting them get away with it?

Regards
DL
Have I ever forgiven anyone? I don't know. Christians do a bad job of defining forgiveness, which is disappointing given that their religion mentions it as a requirement of salvation so often.

Does it mean I have to invite the guy who killed my parents to the church fishing trip because he said "lol sorry," or does it mean that I shouldn't want to beat someone up over laughing at me? Does it forego punishment or not? Does it necessitate genuine remorse on the other person's part, or not? I've seen conflicting sources indicating all of the above.
You do not know. Wow.

It is a part of their salvation from what I hear, yes. Forgiven and judged by their own standards.

Yet you say it does not teach one. Strange church.

Why would you wait for someone else to set your standard?

You said their religion. What is yours if any?

Regards
DL

 
 
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Hawkeye said:
Greatest I am said:
I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian
What does that actually mean? Do you perhaps have a catechism or an exposition of your faith you can point me towards?

I see your distaste of God as presented in the Old Testament and various related issues but I'm finding that I don't quite know where you're coming from.

What is a Gnostic Christian?
Because of our affinity to Jewish Kabbala, many think, as I do that we were the original Catholics as we are Universalists and catholic means universal. Today's Catholics are not Universalists and that indicates to me that they were the child religion that turned on the parent religion the moment Constantine bought them and pushed his theology into it.

Who came first does not really matter to me though. What maters to me is morals and Gnostic Christian morality is way superior to what Christianity stands for.

Gnostic Christians are just emerging now and to know our policies you would have to ask the individuals. There are likely as many flavors of Gnostics Christians as there are Christian sects and you guys are all over the place.

Gnostic Christians refused to lock up our free thinking to go to the literalism of just your four main gospels and that is why Catholics murdered us and burned our scripture.

Here is a general set of beliefs but asking is better.

http://www.thesongofgod.com/tgc/basic_beliefs.html

There are other sets of beliefs out there but some I deny completely. As I said, better to ask.

I push this set of the beliefs that Jesus taught.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I am brethren to Jesus. Consider doing the same.

Regards
DL


When you say "consider doing the same", it's proselytism.  Therefore, this too will be added to the report.

Mina
 
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Mor Ephrem said:
Maria said:
Mor Ephrem said:
Hawkeye said:
What is a Gnostic Christian?
If you need to ask, you don't deserve need to know.  
FIFY
I know what I wrote, Maria, and I meant it as written. 
I do not agree with either of you. All deserve to know a Christian sect that makes the mainstream look sick with their discrimination against half the world that consists of women and gays.

They also need reminding of all the murders their literal reading has given the world and some foolish Christians are still doing it.

Regards
DL
 

Mor Ephrem

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So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?
 
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Mor Ephrem said:
So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?
I am a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

Regards
DL
 

LBK

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Mor Ephrem said:
So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?
Please don't bring Yesh into this ....  :p
 

Maria

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Greatest I am said:
Mor Ephrem said:
So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?
I am a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

Regards
DL
Know that I am praying for you that you may be saved.
 

WPM

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Hawkeye said:
Greatest I am said:
I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian
What does that actually mean? Do you perhaps have a catechism or an exposition of your faith you can point me towards?

I see your distaste of God as presented in the Old Testament and various related issues but I'm finding that I don't quite know where you're coming from.

What is a Gnostic Christian?
The Gnostic Christians believed in special knowledge and had a secret hierarchy from ancient times.
 

Apples

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Greatest I am said:
Why would you wait for someone else to set your standard?
I guess this is why I'm not one of them, anymore.

You said their religion. What is yours if any?

Regards
DL

 
I try to use religion for its useful purposes (ritual and community) without compromising my own ethical standards, which are higher than those of most religions.
 
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William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
We are all murderers, unless you never felt hatred towards anyone.

Leviticus 19:17

Love Your Neighbor
…16'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:21

Anger and Reconciliation
21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.…


 

Maria

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WPM said:
The Gnostic Christians believed in special knowledge and had a secret hierarchy from ancient times.
They have also incurred several anathemas:

According to Appendix II written by Father Seraphim Rose:

The foundation of the Gnostic systems is the idea of the creation of a higher religio-philosophical knowledge (gnosis) by uniting Greek philosophy and the philosophy of the learned Alexandrian Jew Philo with the Eastern religions, especially the religion of Zoroaster. In this way the  Gnostics worked out diverse systems which set forth an absolute resolution of all questions of existence. To the metaphysical constructions made on this foundation were added fantasy-like symbolical forms. Having become acquainted with Christianity and even having accepted Christianity, the Gnostics did not abandon their fantastic constructions, but strove to unite them with Christianity. Thus arose the numerous Gnostic heresies in the midst of Christianity.
Citation: Pomazansky, Father Michael, Orthodox Dogmatic Theology, 2nd Edition, trans. Hieromonk Seraphim Rose, St. Herman of Alaska, 1997, p. 376.
 

Apples

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Sinful Hypocrite said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
We are all murderers, unless you never felt hatred towards anyone.

Leviticus 19:17

Love Your Neighbor
…16'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:21

Anger and Reconciliation
21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.…
It takes great strength to hold onto a grudge. The weak may falter and forgive. It's like clinging to a rock in a storm. The waves of life - happiness, new experiences, the dulling of old wounds after long years passing, all of these may shake you from your way. But you must always cling to that rock, or you will lose yourself.
 

kelly

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William said:
Sinful Hypocrite said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
We are all murderers, unless you never felt hatred towards anyone.

Leviticus 19:17

Love Your Neighbor
…16'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:21

Anger and Reconciliation
21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.…
It takes great strength to hold onto a grudge. The weak may falter and forgive. It's like clinging to a rock in a storm. The waves of life - happiness, new experiences, the dulling of old wounds after long years passing, all of these may shake you from your way. But you must always cling to that rock, or you will lose yourself.
God is weak then since he calls us to forgive as he forgives.
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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WPM said:
Hawkeye said:
Greatest I am said:
I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian
What does that actually mean? Do you perhaps have a catechism or an exposition of your faith you can point me towards?

I see your distaste of God as presented in the Old Testament and various related issues but I'm finding that I don't quite know where you're coming from.

What is a Gnostic Christian?
The Gnostic Christians believed in special knowledge and had a secret hierarchy from ancient times.
Truth is that Greatest I am is not a real Gnostic. Real Gnosticism are these guys, the Mandaeans.

 

JamesR

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I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.
 

Nikolaostheservant

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jewish voice said:
I didn't see a thread on this topic I think we could use one to just sound off ,write it down speak it out. I'm pretty pissed at God lately no point in hiding it. Atheist join in as well we all need to just vent it sometimes.  :mad:
what god do you worship? if you are mad at him, maybe its not the real god?
 

JamesR

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Sinful Hypocrite said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
We are all murderers, unless you never felt hatred towards anyone.

Leviticus 19:17

Love Your Neighbor
…16'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:21

Anger and Reconciliation
21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.…
That's the whole thing.

This whole Orthodox concept of sin is tiring. Apparently I'm just as bad if I break the Fast as a serial murderer who has sex with 2 year olds. An we're told not to judge and the Church tells us to forgive each other and God forgives others while doing absolutely nothing to uphold justice.

See the Parable of the Prodigal Son and those workers on the field. Worshipping God and being good your whole life is POINTLESS because no matter how good you are, it means nothing to God and all you have to do is come to Him at the very end and He'll award you with the same or an even greater reward than those who worshipped Him from the beginning.
 

kelly

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JamesR said:
I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.
u mad, bro?
 

JamesR

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kelly said:
JamesR said:
I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.
u mad, bro?
Wouldn't be posting in here if I weren't.
 

Maria

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JamesR said:
Sinful Hypocrite said:
William said:
Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.
We are all murderers, unless you never felt hatred towards anyone.

Leviticus 19:17

Love Your Neighbor
…16'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:21

Anger and Reconciliation
21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.…
That's the whole thing.

This whole Orthodox concept of sin is tiring. Apparently I'm just as bad if I break the Fast as a serial murderer who has sex with 2 year olds. An we're told not to judge and the Church tells us to forgive each other and God forgives others while doing absolutely nothing to uphold justice.

See the Parable of the Prodigal Son and those workers on the field. Worshipping God and being good your whole life is POINTLESS because no matter how good you are, it means nothing to God and all you have to do is come to Him at the very end and He'll award you with the same or an even greater reward than those who worshipped Him from the beginning.
No. Not true.

We are to rejoice with the angelic choir who rejoice to see one sinner repent.

However, if we give into temptation and sin, then there is no way that we can assume that we will be saved.

We must persevere and do good even if all around us are wicked. And like St. Seraphim of Sarov said, if we acquire the Holy Spirit, then thousands around us will be saved.
 

minasoliman

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William said:
Greatest I am said:
Why would you wait for someone else to set your standard?
I guess this is why I'm not one of them, anymore.

You said their religion. What is yours if any?

Regards
DL

 
I try to use religion for its useful purposes (ritual and community) without compromising my own ethical standards, which are higher than those of most religions.
Follow my advice; it's better than most religions.  ::)

In any case, the Psalms in the Bible is filled with references of being angry at God as well.  I like what Fr. George wrote.  When you're angry at God, you're acknowledging Him, and He can take it.  Make your anger genuine towards him, not to anyone else, even if they directly have been involved in wrongdoing.

And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.
 

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minasoliman said:
And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.
Isn't that same type of forgiving quasi-martyr attitude the same thing that causes domestic abuse victims like those in a marriage or children in a family to stay with their abusers and/or keep coming back to them?
 

xOrthodox4Christx

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JamesR said:
minasoliman said:
And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.
Isn't that same type of forgiving quasi-martyr attitude the same thing that causes domestic abuse victims like those in a marriage or children in a family to stay with their abusers and/or keep coming back to them?
No, forgiving an enemy doesn't mean we tolerate all of their destructive antics. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure none of us supports ISIS. On that topic, let's not go further.
 

minasoliman

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JamesR said:
minasoliman said:
And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.
Isn't that same type of forgiving quasi-martyr attitude the same thing that causes domestic abuse victims like those in a marriage or children in a family to stay with their abusers and/or keep coming back to them?
Not at all.  I have known some priests who have taken victims of domestic abuse in their care away from the aggressor and encouraged reporting the abuses.  Once all is settled and taken care of though, there needs to be a certain time to forgive.  The point of forgiveness is not to put yourself in harm's way, in a quasi-martyr fashion.

Fr. Thomas Hopko once talked about forgiveness somewhere, and about loving your neighbor as yourself.  It was a really good interview.
 

minasoliman

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xOrthodox4Christx said:
JamesR said:
minasoliman said:
And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.
Isn't that same type of forgiving quasi-martyr attitude the same thing that causes domestic abuse victims like those in a marriage or children in a family to stay with their abusers and/or keep coming back to them?
No, forgiving an enemy doesn't mean we tolerate all of their destructive antics. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure none of us supports ISIS. On that topic, let's not go further.
Case in point:  many survivors of ISIS have taken to forgive ISIS and pray for them.  If that is not the highest of standards I don't know what is.

Socrates in fact was one of the first people to teach or at least imply "love thy enemy", from what I understand.
 

minasoliman

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Also, one of Martin Luther King's success in the human rights movement is to teach peaceful resistance with loving thy enemy.  He wrote great sermons about this particular issue.
 

TheTrisagion

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Forgiveness does not mean pretending it never happened. That is not healthy. Forgiveness is having the strength the demonstrate kindness someone who has hurt you.
 

minasoliman

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TheTrisagion said:
Forgiveness does not mean pretending it never happened. That is not healthy. Forgiveness is having the strength the demonstrate kindness someone who has hurt you.
Exactly!  I think many times people tend to see forgiveness as suppressing a memory or acting naive towards something being wrongly done.  How can we be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves" if all we do is run away from the problem facing us?

I think that in our culture the willingness to admit there is real evil is difficult for us — it is such a violent and awesome position towards life. Of course, people in tremendous pain — rape victims, incest victims, etc. — have to forgive if they are going to go on living. But the main forgiving that needs doing in everybody’s life, the central act of forgiveness and one that indicates spiritual maturity in every case without exception, is the forgiveness of the parents. We tend either to blame parents or idealize them — both of which cripple life. In order to forgive them, one must first admit the offense, and that may mean enduring incredible pain. Rage and sadness have to be faced in order to forgive. The reason that we can’t forgive is because we don’t want to face the pain and rage, to admit what really happened.


Source: http://www.pravmir.com/living-in-communion-an-interview-with-father-thomas-hopko/#ixzz3ECTXh64i
 

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JamesR said:
kelly said:
JamesR said:
I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.
u mad, bro?
Wouldn't be posting in here if I weren't.
Also please think of the positives.  You exist, have free will, can get married, have children, fulfill life, eat steak, laugh, snuggle, have pets, enjoy ice cream, enjoy his beautiful creation, make smores, sing songs, go on rides, go on vacations, scuba in the tropics, hang glide, go fishing, fireworks, enjoy the feeling of charity to all those "victims".... etc. etc. etc.
 

yeshuaisiam

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Maria said:
Greatest I am said:
Mor Ephrem said:
So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?
I am a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

Regards
DL
No.

Gnosticism is a Luciferian faith.

It's way older than Constantine.
The book of Jude was about the Gnostics spoken of in warning.

The Gnostics have a tremendously disgusting and blasphemous belief system.  I've gone through their texts (Nag Hammadi) and researched them a lot. 

I have a HANDFUL of problems with Eastern Orthodoxy which strikes nerves.  Mainly:
The Father/Master thing
The Icon issue
The Irony of ecumenism
The claim to being "only the original"

Are probably the largest.  It ticks people off because it's an "all or none thing" with EO and completely logical what I am presenting.


 

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yeshuaisiam said:
Maria said:
Greatest I am said:
Mor Ephrem said:
So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?
I am a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

Regards
DL
No.

Gnosticism is a Luciferian faith.

It's way older than Constantine.
The book of Jude was about the Gnostics spoken of in warning.

The Gnostics have a tremendously disgusting and blasphemous belief system.  I've gone through their texts (Nag Hammadi) and researched them a lot.   

I have a HANDFUL of problems with Eastern Orthodoxy which strikes nerves.  Mainly:
The Father/Master thing
The Icon issue
The Irony of ecumenism
The claim to being "only the original"

Are probably the largest.  It ticks people off because it's an "all or none thing" with EO and completely logical what I am presenting.
I understand your problem with ecumenism. I agree with St. Philaret's condemnation of it.

However, there is nothing wrong with calling a priest "father" as he is our spiritual father, and that is mentioned in the Scripture by St. Paul, among others.

Regarding icons, Christ took the canvas from the hands of the struggling artist who was trying to capture Christ for the King of Edessa, but could not. So Christ compassionately touched His face to the canvas and presented it to the artist who took it to the King. When the King of Edessa saw and venerated the icon of Christ, he was healed of his leprosy. However, this topic has most likely been rehashed over and over again in other threads.

The Orthodox Church started with the 12 Apostles; it is the original church founded by Christ.
 
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