Why Are You Mad At God

[sakura95]

I could never get angry at God, mainly because I spent time and time questioning my beliefs in Him and whether or not He is the Loving and Merciful God of Orthodox Christianity or the sadistic deity conjured by the Calvinists and some Evangelicals. From such thoughts, it is only fear that comes. Fear that the God that Created the Universe could be as the Calvinists describe Him. My conscience tells me such a god cannot exist yet, my own mind itself doubt the conscience within me especially given just how uncertain Death itself is. All sorts of things could happen after death. It could be nothing, pain, paradise or something else all together.

The Orthodox concept of the Afterlife is one that I find to be of most sense within the Abrahamic Religions. Yet, my fallible and vulnerable mind doubts and fear the possibility of the Calvinistic god being God Himself.

 

[Asteriktos]

 

[Paisius]

Good grief some of you have the most distorted, twisted view of God I've ever seen. No wonder you don't want to believe in Him. Fortunately for all of us your conception of God has nothing to do with reality.

 

[Greatest I am]

So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?

I am a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

Regards
DL

Know that I am praying for you that you may be saved.

I do not need it. Christians do.

The Godhead I know doe not have to condemn what he creates. He creates more perfectly that your God is said to do.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

Why does your God condemn his perfect works?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian

What does that actually mean? Do you perhaps have a catechism or an exposition of your faith you can point me towards?

I see your distaste of God as presented in the Old Testament and various related issues but I'm finding that I don't quite know where you're coming from.

What is a Gnostic Christian?

The Gnostic Christians believed in special knowledge and had a secret hierarchy from ancient times.

We believe in Gnosis which is the knowledge of self at a deep level. At the Christ mind level. As Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within us and some of us are lucky enough to force their apotheosis.

By hierarchy, are you speaking of the older Jewish Kabbala, or what exactly are you referring to?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Why would you wait for someone else to set your standard?

I guess this is why I'm not one of them, anymore.

You said their religion. What is yours if any?

Regards
DL

 

I try to use religion for its useful purposes (ritual and community) without compromising my own ethical standards, which are higher than those of most religions.

I think I understand but how can you use it's community aspects, rituals and fellowship, while not agreeing with the moral aspects?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.

We are all murderers, unless you never felt hatred towards anyone.

Leviticus 19:17

Love Your Neighbor
…16'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:21

Anger and Reconciliation
21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.…

Sins have victims.

Thoughts have no victims.

To condemn anyone for a thought would be immoral. If your God does so then he is a satanic God.

Regards
DL

 

[WPM]

I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian

What does that actually mean? Do you perhaps have a catechism or an exposition of your faith you can point me towards?

I see your distaste of God as presented in the Old Testament and various related issues but I'm finding that I don't quite know where you're coming from.

What is a Gnostic Christian?

The Gnostic Christians believed in special knowledge and had a secret hierarchy from ancient times.

We believe in Gnosis which is the knowledge of self at a deep level. At the Christ mind level. As Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within us and some of us are lucky enough to force their apotheosis.

By hierarchy, are you speaking of the older Jewish Kabbala, or what exactly are you referring to?

Regards
DL

Well, its not what Christians believe ... IMHO, You're typing posts based of off intellectual whims..Doesn't really mean anything

 

[Greatest I am]

The Gnostic Christians believed in special knowledge and had a secret hierarchy from ancient times.

They have also incurred several anathemas:

According to Appendix II written by Father Seraphim Rose:

The foundation of the Gnostic systems is the idea of the creation of a higher religio-philosophical knowledge (gnosis) by uniting Greek philosophy and the philosophy of the learned Alexandrian Jew Philo with the Eastern religions, especially the religion of Zoroaster. In this way the  Gnostics worked out diverse systems which set forth an absolute resolution of all questions of existence. To the metaphysical constructions made on this foundation were added fantasy-like symbolical forms. Having become acquainted with Christianity and even having accepted Christianity, the Gnostics did not abandon their fantastic constructions, but strove to unite them with Christianity. Thus arose the numerous Gnostic heresies in the midst of Christianity.

Citation: Pomazansky, Father Michael, Orthodox Dogmatic Theology, 2nd Edition, trans. Hieromonk Seraphim Rose, St. Herman of Alaska, 1997, p. 376.

Interesting quote.

I have not quite reached the point of knowing how their myths, " In this way the  Gnostics worked out diverse systems which set forth an absolute resolution of all questions of existence."

We modern Gnostic Christians have done that with science today instead of the myths of yesterday.

In ancient days, to teach the less educated which was the huge majority, they used to use parables and simple stories to express deeper truths that those who were initiated in the mysteries would discuss privately. Even Jesus did it.

Today, with education being widespread, we need not do so anymore.

For instance, if you are aware of Evolutionary Theology, you will know that it explains the problem and necessity of evil quite well.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,51736.0.html

Regards
DL

 

 

[Greatest I am]

A good quote. Thanks.

If you cannot see God everywhere, you will never find him anywhere.

Jesus said about the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

 

[yeshuaisiam]

So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?

I am a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

Regards
DL

No.

Gnosticism is a Luciferian faith.

It's way older than Constantine.
The book of Jude was about the Gnostics spoken of in warning.

The Gnostics have a tremendously disgusting and blasphemous belief system.  I've gone through their texts (Nag Hammadi) and researched them a lot.   

I have a HANDFUL of problems with Eastern Orthodoxy which strikes nerves.  Mainly:
The Father/Master thing
The Icon issue
The Irony of ecumenism
The claim to being "only the original"

Are probably the largest.  It ticks people off because it's an "all or none thing" with EO and completely logical what I am presenting.

I understand your problem with ecumenism. I agree with St. Philaret's condemnation of it.

However, there is nothing wrong with calling a priest "father" as he is our spiritual father, and that is mentioned in the Scripture by St. Paul, among others.

Regarding icons, Christ took the canvas from the hands of the struggling artist who was trying to capture Christ for the King of Edessa, but could not. So Christ compassionately touched His face to the canvas and presented it to the artist who took it to the King. When the King of Edessa saw and venerated the icon of Christ, he was healed of his leprosy. However, this topic has most likely been rehashed over and over again in other threads.

The Orthodox Church started with the 12 Apostles; it is the original church founded by Christ.

I know Maria...  Honestly I think these were exhausted in other threads.   But I do respect your beliefs in the matter and you as a person & your faith in God.

 

[Skydive]

Because somewhere on the road(of life), I lost myself, something died inside my soul, I need more courage, more realism, and more realisation, I need to find myself(I don't believe in the Conventional Churching "founding/reborning" etc cause my life is pretty much that of a puritan and a moralism though I feel dead, lost, missing myself and my other half(soulmate)). He could of kept my beauty also, or make me handsomer. Mad? No. Just angry sometimes.

 

[Greatest I am]

[
God is weak then since he calls us to forgive as he forgives.

As a Universalist, I like this.

But the Christians have always preached the wide road to hell and the narrow path to heaven, so God, as we can see, has a poor forgiveness record.

Strange that God loves the sinners and hates the sins yet it is those he loves that he condemns to hell and not the sins he says he hates.

Oh well. Someone is lying.

Regards
DL

 

[yeshuaisiam]

Because somewhere on the road(of life), I lost myself, something died inside my soul, I need more courage, more realism, and more realisation, I need to find myself(I don't believe in the Conventional Churching "founding/reborning" etc cause my life is pretty much that of a puritan and a moralism though I feel dead, lost, missing myself and my other half(soulmate)). He could of kept my beauty also, or make me handsomer. Mad? No. Just angry sometimes.

Do you feel content in the moral life that you have?  I believe that is one area that most Christians do not realize they struggle.  If you find happiness, even in the simplicity, it will bring you joy.

If you think constantly "what don't I have" or the like, you'll be sad.  I believe we take these worldly standards above accepting what God gave us and it makes us feel lost/empty/without/hollow.  This is because of our discontented spirit.

God made you in his image.  You'll probably eat some good food today.  The sun is shining right now - go enjoy it.  Feel that nice breeze?  See that beauty in nature?   It's all there sitting for you if you just accept what God gave you.

 

[Greatest I am]

I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.

You are being politically correct. Some do not bother.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Regards
DL

 

[yeshuaisiam]

[
God is weak then since he calls us to forgive as he forgives.

As a Universalist, I like this.

But the Christians have always preached the wide road to hell and the narrow path to heaven, so God, as we can see, has a poor forgiveness record.

Strange that God loves the sinners and hates the sins yet it is those he loves that he condemns to hell and not the sins he says he hates.

Oh well. Someone is lying.

Regards
DL

UM,

Forgive us our debts as we have forgiven our debtors.

Rather we pray to God to forgive us on the standard that we have forgiven others.

 

[Greatest I am]

And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.

Isn't that same type of forgiving quasi-martyr attitude the same thing that causes domestic abuse victims like those in a marriage or children in a family to stay with their abusers and/or keep coming back to them?

No, forgiving an enemy doesn't mean we tolerate all of their destructive antics. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure none of us supports ISIS. On that topic, let's not go further.

Case in point:  many survivors of ISIS have taken to forgive ISIS and pray for them.  If that is not the highest of standards I don't know what is.

Socrates in fact was one of the first people to teach or at least imply "love thy enemy", from what I understand.

Let's all love Ebola.

Regards
DL

 

[yeshuaisiam]

I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.

You are being politically correct. Some do not bother.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Regards
DL

Ironic that God would form man in his image.  Ironic that he would create the beauty of nature.  Ironic that he'd create puppies.  Odd that he'd create sugar and food that tastes good.   Why based on definition above?

You like meat?  You like lamb?  You like hamburgers done right?  You like BBQ?  PORTER HOUSE?  God created all of these things and GAVE MAN DOMINION OVER THEM.

God gave us senses, emotions, etc.   He gave us love.    If you snorkel in the tropics you'll see the beauty of his creation even in the ocean reefs.  

God loves us more than anybody can imagine.

We as fallen people (no thanks to the serpent) found that we could not accept all this wonder and beauty and wanted more.  Thus discontentedness rose up in us, and our sinful nature is enslaved to a false light of fake liberty.  The next thing you know there is a thread about being angry at God for not "being good enough" for us.

 

[Greatest I am]

Also, one of Martin Luther King's success in the human rights movement is to teach peaceful resistance with loving thy enemy.  He wrote great sermons about this particular issue.

Yep. The Jews were to love the German's as they walked into the furnaces. They did. I have a clip if I recall where they are throwing the German's kisses.

Regards
DL

 

[minasoliman]

And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.

Isn't that same type of forgiving quasi-martyr attitude the same thing that causes domestic abuse victims like those in a marriage or children in a family to stay with their abusers and/or keep coming back to them?

No, forgiving an enemy doesn't mean we tolerate all of their destructive antics. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure none of us supports ISIS. On that topic, let's not go further.

Case in point:  many survivors of ISIS have taken to forgive ISIS and pray for them.  If that is not the highest of standards I don't know what is.

Socrates in fact was one of the first people to teach or at least imply "love thy enemy", from what I understand.

Let's all love Ebola.

Regards
DL

Sad that you make yourself out to be an intellectual "gnostic", when you know nothing really.

 

[Greatest I am]

So is Greatest I am a part of the Church which yeshuaisiam says is one of those persecuted-by-Constantine alternatives to Orthodoxy?

I am a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

Regards
DL

No.

Gnosticism is a Luciferian faith.

It's way older than Constantine.
The book of Jude was about the Gnostics spoken of in warning.

The Gnostics have a tremendously disgusting and blasphemous belief system.  I've gone through their texts (Nag Hammadi) and researched them a lot.   

I have a HANDFUL of problems with Eastern Orthodoxy which strikes nerves.  Mainly:
The Father/Master thing
The Icon issue
The Irony of ecumenism
The claim to being "only the original"

Are probably the largest.  It ticks people off because it's an "all or none thing" with EO and completely logical what I am presenting.

Gnostic Christians do not believe in Lucifer or Satan. Those are myth to all intelligent people.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I could never get angry at God, mainly because I spent time and time questioning my beliefs in Him and whether or not He is the Loving and Merciful God of Orthodox Christianity or the sadistic deity conjured by the Calvinists and some Evangelicals. From such thoughts, it is only fear that comes. Fear that the God that Created the Universe could be as the Calvinists describe Him. My conscience tells me such a god cannot exist yet, my own mind itself doubt the conscience within me especially given just how uncertain Death itself is. All sorts of things could happen after death. It could be nothing, pain, paradise or something else all together.

The Orthodox concept of the Afterlife is one that I find to be of most sense within the Abrahamic Religions. Yet, my fallible and vulnerable mind doubts and fear the possibility of the Calvinistic god being God Himself.

What is the Orthodox concept of the Afterlife?

Heaven does not interest me at the moment but your view of hell is what I seek. If you have one which I think you do.

Please teach.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Good grief some of you have the most distorted, twisted view of God I've ever seen. No wonder you don't want to believe in Him. Fortunately for all of us your conception of God has nothing to do with reality.

:laugh: And yours does. How droll.

Regards
DL

 

[TheTrisagion]

I could never get angry at God, mainly because I spent time and time questioning my beliefs in Him and whether or not He is the Loving and Merciful God of Orthodox Christianity or the sadistic deity conjured by the Calvinists and some Evangelicals. From such thoughts, it is only fear that comes. Fear that the God that Created the Universe could be as the Calvinists describe Him. My conscience tells me such a god cannot exist yet, my own mind itself doubt the conscience within me especially given just how uncertain Death itself is. All sorts of things could happen after death. It could be nothing, pain, paradise or something else all together.

The Orthodox concept of the Afterlife is one that I find to be of most sense within the Abrahamic Religions. Yet, my fallible and vulnerable mind doubts and fear the possibility of the Calvinistic god being God Himself.

What is the Orthodox concept of the Afterlife?

Heaven does not interest me at the moment but your view of hell is what I seek. If you have one which I think you do.

Please teach.

Regards
DL

Hell is what you make it.

 

[Skydive]

Because somewhere on the road(of life), I lost myself, something died inside my soul, I need more courage, more realism, and more realisation, I need to find myself(I don't believe in the Conventional Churching "founding/reborning" etc cause my life is pretty much that of a puritan and a moralism though I feel dead, lost, missing myself and my other half(soulmate)). He could of kept my beauty also, or make me handsomer. Mad? No. Just angry sometimes.

Do you feel content in the moral life that you have?  I believe that is one area that most Christians do not realize they struggle.  If you find happiness, even in the simplicity, it will bring you joy.

If you think constantly "what don't I have" or the like, you'll be sad.  I believe we take these worldly standards above accepting what God gave us and it makes us feel lost/empty/without/hollow.  This is because of our discontented spirit.

God made you in his image.  You'll probably eat some good food today.  The sun is shining right now - go enjoy it.  Feel that nice breeze?  See that beauty in nature?   It's all there sitting for you if you just accept what God gave you.

Very rarely.

Because it is not such a rewarding activity.

Life is more than that. I cannot lie to myself saying I am content with that cause I know life is so much more. There is a lot to the life of contenance out there. There is a lot of bliss in the world internal and external.

I cannot be happy with just a small piece once I have awareness of the whole thing, I cannot be satisfied with that. I can be satisfied, thanksgiving with what I have for now but I refuse to have that like the most I will have in life.

And all I want is my thirst to be quenched, contendance happiness, fulfilment and blossoming of my soul. I am only looking for this "material" things because of that. I have been looking for that in religions for years but I did not find it, and I don't believe it is strictly and entirely connected to religion. The world is material, we are material, our realisation of our material needs and desires and dreams and the conveyance of a meaning is the only thing that gives us fulfilment. I believe the repression of our goals, wishes, dreams and needs is a false contenance/happiness. We are spiritual but also carnal. Thus our needs are for both.

 

[Greatest I am]

I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian

What does that actually mean? Do you perhaps have a catechism or an exposition of your faith you can point me towards?

I see your distaste of God as presented in the Old Testament and various related issues but I'm finding that I don't quite know where you're coming from.

What is a Gnostic Christian?

The Gnostic Christians believed in special knowledge and had a secret hierarchy from ancient times.

We believe in Gnosis which is the knowledge of self at a deep level. At the Christ mind level. As Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within us and some of us are lucky enough to force their apotheosis.

By hierarchy, are you speaking of the older Jewish Kabbala, or what exactly are you referring to?

Regards
DL

Well, its not what Christians believe ... IMHO, You're typing posts based of off intellectual whims..Doesn't really mean anything

The question was on the hierarchy you mentioned.

Thanks for showing you did not know what you were talking about and deflecting with a personal insult.

Typical Christian.

Regards
D

 

[Greatest I am]

Because somewhere on the road(of life), I lost myself, something died inside my soul, I need more courage, more realism, and more realisation, I need to find myself(I don't believe in the Conventional Churching "founding/reborning" etc cause my life is pretty much that of a puritan and a moralism though I feel dead, lost, missing myself and my other half(soulmate)). He could of kept my beauty also, or make me handsomer. Mad? No. Just angry sometimes.

Good. Don't get mad. Get even by finding yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

This will be added into the report as proselytism. 

-Mina

 

[Skydive]

Because somewhere on the road(of life), I lost myself, something died inside my soul, I need more courage, more realism, and more realisation, I need to find myself(I don't believe in the Conventional Churching "founding/reborning" etc cause my life is pretty much that of a puritan and a moralism though I feel dead, lost, missing myself and my other half(soulmate)). He could of kept my beauty also, or make me handsomer. Mad? No. Just angry sometimes.

Good. Don't get mad. Get even by finding yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

I don't take advices from those who crawl upon the face of the earth. I want to spread my wings and fly.

 

[Greatest I am]

[
God is weak then since he calls us to forgive as he forgives.

As a Universalist, I like this.

But the Christians have always preached the wide road to hell and the narrow path to heaven, so God, as we can see, has a poor forgiveness record.

Strange that God loves the sinners and hates the sins yet it is those he loves that he condemns to hell and not the sins he says he hates.

Oh well. Someone is lying.

Regards
DL

UM,

Forgive us our debts as we have forgiven our debtors.

Rather we pray to God to forgive us on the standard that we have forgiven others.

For sure but it seems that you, not you personally of course, do not forgive much and God does not either as the vast majority he fries.

Your God needs to visit Madame Rue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rXhXLsNJL8

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.

You are being politically correct. Some do not bother.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Regards
DL

Ironic that God would form man in his image.  Ironic that he would create the beauty of nature.  Ironic that he'd create puppies.  Odd that he'd create sugar and food that tastes good.   Why based on definition above?

You like meat?  You like lamb?  You like hamburgers done right?  You like BBQ?  PORTER HOUSE?  God created all of these things and GAVE MAN DOMINION OVER THEM.

God gave us senses, emotions, etc.   He gave us love.    If you snorkel in the tropics you'll see the beauty of his creation even in the ocean reefs.  

God loves us more than anybody can imagine.

We as fallen people (no thanks to the serpent) found that we could not accept all this wonder and beauty and wanted more.  Thus discontentedness rose up in us, and our sinful nature is enslaved to a false light of fake liberty.  The next thing you know there is a thread about being angry at God for not "being good enough" for us.

You need to listen to this Bishop when he speaks of the fallen people.

I have it in this potential O.P.

==============

Is self-deprecation an insult to God, --- who can only create perfection?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1RuyPAIwK8

The reason most do not recognize the perfection of all things is that they have bought into the idea that Jesus dies for their retched souls that even in their perfection, cannot get themselves into heaven without making God a despicable child abuser.

God’s best works, --- mankind, --- seems to not recognize that it is perfect. Growing up is simply moving ones initial perfection to a more perfect state. A strange use of language, but if you are an American, you should have no problem as it is the language of your constitution.

Either Christians ignore that God creates all things perfect, or the bible lies. In scriptures, perfection never loses it’s perfection. If it did, God himself might be in jeopardy. It shows that perfection being passed down the generations.

Many Christians self–deprecate. They name themselves worthless, fallen, retched, not deserving of self-respect etc.
Meanwhile the bible shows God even angry with angels that will not bow down to man. God seems to think we are hot stuff so why do Christians not believe it. Why believe the idiocy that we are born in sin and that God has to have his own son murdered to save us from himself.

The moral of the crucifixion is selflessness. Not salvation for perfect souls that God would not and could not condemn. God is in everything and he, like us, is evolving perfection. God would not condemn a part of himself.

God is in and is everything. If you cannot see God in all, then you cannot see God at all. Harbhajan Singh Yogi

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus was not sent to die for you as you were never condemned. He was sent, by himself, so to speak, to recruit you and make you his brethren. His concern was to make you the best human he could. He knew that your soul would find it’s way to heaven on it’s own. God had taken care of that already.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Jesus would never condone substitutionary atonement. It is equivalent to human sacrifice and Jesus would never teach such an immoral practice. Only those of little faith would think that God would create us for less than the best possible end and that would include Jesus and everything he did and that would not include an immoral blemish like his teaching us that there is anything good in substitutionary atonement and human sacrifice. 

Here Jesus tells you how you should think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Here is a way to get to the right thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

 For thread commandeering, I'm placing you on post-mod for 99 days.  If you like to appeal this action, you do so only through PM.

Mina
Moderator of Religious Topics​

 

[Greatest I am]

[

You like meat?  You like lamb?  You like hamburgers done right?  You like BBQ?  PORTER HOUSE?  God created all of these things and GAVE MAN DOMINION OVER THEM.

Interesting.

If man has dominion here, was the Temptation of Christ a sham?

Did Satan lie when he tempted Jesus with dominion? Did he not have it and would Jesus not have known that?

Who has dominion here? Satan or man? nIf man then there was never a Temptation of Christ.

Regards
DL

 

[sakura95]

I could never get angry at God, mainly because I spent time and time questioning my beliefs in Him and whether or not He is the Loving and Merciful God of Orthodox Christianity or the sadistic deity conjured by the Calvinists and some Evangelicals. From such thoughts, it is only fear that comes. Fear that the God that Created the Universe could be as the Calvinists describe Him. My conscience tells me such a god cannot exist yet, my own mind itself doubt the conscience within me especially given just how uncertain Death itself is. All sorts of things could happen after death. It could be nothing, pain, paradise or something else all together.

The Orthodox concept of the Afterlife is one that I find to be of most sense within the Abrahamic Religions. Yet, my fallible and vulnerable mind doubts and fear the possibility of the Calvinistic god being God Himself.

What is the Orthodox concept of the Afterlife?

Heaven does not interest me at the moment but your view of hell is what I seek. If you have one which I think you do.

Please teach.

Regards
DL

Just as any Christian believes, there's Heaven and Hell. Orthodoxy sees the two as being in the Presence of God Himself. To the righteous, His Presence, experienced as Paradise and Bliss. To the damned who hates God, the Presence, experienced as suffering and torment.

 

[ZealousZeal]

I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. 

For all your life?

 

[kelly]

I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. 

For all your life?

That song is appropriate for several reasons.

 

[Alveus Lacuna]

Just as any Christian believes, there's Heaven and Hell. Orthodoxy sees the two as being in the Presence of God Himself. To the righteous, His Presence, experienced as Paradise and Bliss. To the damned who hates God, the Presence, experienced as suffering and torment.

That's one way it's explained by some people. There are plenty of other ways to explain, but all the images need to work together. God is a consuming fire, but also we are cast away into outer darkness.

 

[xOrthodox4Christx]

I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. I'm infuriated at God and lack any form of respect for Him whatsoever.

Apart from the typical dissatisfaction with my life that everybody has--which I think is justified in my circumstances--I'm angry at Him for many things. I'm mad at God for taking my miscarried sister, allowing all of this bad and evil to happen in the world while doing absolutely nothing whatsoever, for creating all of us against our will when I think non-existence would be more desirable. I'm mad at God for being a Divine Jigsaw who forces all of us into existence and forces each of us to play His divine game of chess where the repercussions for failure are eternal Hellfire. And still, no option to forfeit our existence and not play. I'm mad at God for doing nothing about all those poor people and prostitutes I see on the street; I'm mad at Him for staying silent all the time, I'm mad at Him for giving us boring rules to live by like chastity when promiscuity and badness seem so much more fun and natural. I'm mad at Him for outlawing everything and anything even remotely fun; I'm mad at Him for entrusting His true faith to a bunch of annoying Greek nationalists. I'm mad at Him I have to worship Him or else suffer...

God isn't a very likable guy when you really think about it.

You are being politically correct. Some do not bother.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Regards
DL

Ironic that God would form man in his image.  Ironic that he would create the beauty of nature.  Ironic that he'd create puppies.  Odd that he'd create sugar and food that tastes good.   Why based on definition above?

You like meat?  You like lamb?  You like hamburgers done right?  You like BBQ?  PORTER HOUSE?  God created all of these things and GAVE MAN DOMINION OVER THEM.

God gave us senses, emotions, etc.   He gave us love.    If you snorkel in the tropics you'll see the beauty of his creation even in the ocean reefs.  

God loves us more than anybody can imagine.

We as fallen people (no thanks to the serpent) found that we could not accept all this wonder and beauty and wanted more.  Thus discontentedness rose up in us, and our sinful nature is enslaved to a false light of fake liberty.  The next thing you know there is a thread about being angry at God for not "being good enough" for us.

Dominionism is not a position I share.

 

[Sinful Hypocrite]

Because "forgiveness" makes no sense. There's no real difference between forgiving someone and letting them get away with whatever they did. Some of the stories of saints "forgiving" rapists and murderers seem like something a sociopath would demand or encourage, not a good God.

We are all murderers, unless you never felt hatred towards anyone.

Leviticus 19:17

Love Your Neighbor
…16'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. 17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:21

Anger and Reconciliation
21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.…

It takes great strength to hold onto a grudge. The weak may falter and forgive. It's like clinging to a rock in a storm. The waves of life - happiness, new experiences, the dulling of old wounds after long years passing, all of these may shake you from your way. But you must always cling to that rock, or you will lose yourself.

Hate and anger is easy, try telling someone you love them, instead of cursing them when you are mad, that is hard.

 

[Paisius]

You like meat?  You like lamb?  You like hamburgers done right?  You like BBQ?  PORTER HOUSE?

And.......now I'm hungry. Way to go. 

 

[Apples]

Why would you wait for someone else to set your standard?

I guess this is why I'm not one of them, anymore.

You said their religion. What is yours if any?

Regards
DL

 

I try to use religion for its useful purposes (ritual and community) without compromising my own ethical standards, which are higher than those of most religions.

Follow my advice; it's better than most religions.  :

In any case, the Psalms in the Bible is filled with references of being angry at God as well.  I like what Fr. George wrote.  When you're angry at God, you're acknowledging Him, and He can take it.  Make your anger genuine towards him, not to anyone else, even if they directly have been involved in wrongdoing.

And forgiving the enemy, or loving the enemy, is actually very therapeutic if you think about it.  There will be no peace in your heart when you hold a grudge.  If you must grudge, do it to God, but don't do it to a fellow man because it will eat you up.  A true sign of strength is forgiveness of the fellow man.  It's actually one of the highest standards.  When one does not want to forgive "an enemy", it's not because "my own ethical standards" are better, but that you are admitting you're too weak to do so.

It is not necessarily therapeutic: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201208/why-you-dont-always-have-forgive

Although it is miles ahead of other forms of "therapy" you've defended on OC.net, such as adding perpetual deceit to adultery.

Let me know if you can find that interview with Fr. Tom.

 

[Apples]

Why would you wait for someone else to set your standard?

I guess this is why I'm not one of them, anymore.

You said their religion. What is yours if any?

Regards
DL

 

I try to use religion for its useful purposes (ritual and community) without compromising my own ethical standards, which are higher than those of most religions.

I think I understand but how can you use it's community aspects, rituals and fellowship, while not agreeing with the moral aspects?

Regards
DL

Some diversity in belief is allowed within participation in the worship and community. In fact, a lot of active members have "diverse" beliefs about things are more or less essential, let alone the arcane issues I have problems with.

For me, it's a matter of determining whether I feel like the diversity is something that should even exist in an organization which purports to uphold divinely-given morality. I haven't figured it out yet.