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Why Are You Mad At God

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minasoliman said:
Sinful Hypocrite said:
My point is revenge and keeping a grudge do not help you, and according to Jesus, they can condemn you to hell before the criminal.
At this point I would actually take William's side on this.  I want you to think of some specific etiquettes when you are talking to some people.  It is hurtful to tell someone who was physically or sexually abused that if you don't forgive you will go to hell.  You'll only hurt the person more and then make them hate religion.

Christ taught us to pray "forgive as our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us," but Christ did not teach that all trespasses are the same.  You cannot expect to give the same lesson for the woman whose son was murdered.  This requires a different manner of healing, one that requires a bit of empathy not to judge.  For they feel they would never do that to anyone, so how can they forgive?  And neither do you know what they went through to even say that.

So in fact, what you said here can actually be quite hurtful.  There are things that are not appropriate to say and required a time and a place.  Doing or saying the right thing at the wrong time is actually a wrong thing.  Christ said things within their context.  He was uprooting a society always seeking to exact vengeance of sins that were not done against them, and he wanted people to take petty grudges (such as those resulting from verbal insults or minor thefts) and lusts of the mind seriously.

But how did Christ approach the woman who was about to lose her life for harlotry?  He did not tell her to forgive the men who was going to stone her, but imagine the scene of Christ talking to this poor woman: "Neither do I accuse you.  Your burden is lifted, sin no more."  That sounds like someone with some compassion who does not bombard you with a list of virtues to accomplish.  William and James are speaking of extreme circumstances, which requires delicate care of your speech and help, and not a haphazard teaching from Christ. 
In my view I am just as Guilty as a mass murderer.

In an earlier post I spoke of having the same problems with forgiving things done to me . Every day I struggle with them, and I will bet they were worse than most.

I try to forgive them for my own soul and well being. I am not addressing the object of our hatred here, I am addressing the one who is not forgiving, which only hurts them more.
I have always said to people that if you become hateful, or harden your heart because what others do to you, then they have won, but it is really satan who has victory.
Were they as bad as crucifying the Son of God who said "Forgive them for they know not what they do"?

I am truly guilty as you say, please forgive me.
 

minasoliman

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Sinful Hypocrite said:
minasoliman said:
Sinful Hypocrite said:
My point is revenge and keeping a grudge do not help you, and according to Jesus, they can condemn you to hell before the criminal.
At this point I would actually take William's side on this.  I want you to think of some specific etiquettes when you are talking to some people.  It is hurtful to tell someone who was physically or sexually abused that if you don't forgive you will go to hell.  You'll only hurt the person more and then make them hate religion.

Christ taught us to pray "forgive as our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us," but Christ did not teach that all trespasses are the same.  You cannot expect to give the same lesson for the woman whose son was murdered.  This requires a different manner of healing, one that requires a bit of empathy not to judge.  For they feel they would never do that to anyone, so how can they forgive?  And neither do you know what they went through to even say that.

So in fact, what you said here can actually be quite hurtful.  There are things that are not appropriate to say and required a time and a place.  Doing or saying the right thing at the wrong time is actually a wrong thing.  Christ said things within their context.  He was uprooting a society always seeking to exact vengeance of sins that were not done against them, and he wanted people to take petty grudges (such as those resulting from verbal insults or minor thefts) and lusts of the mind seriously.

But how did Christ approach the woman who was about to lose her life for harlotry?  He did not tell her to forgive the men who was going to stone her, but imagine the scene of Christ talking to this poor woman: "Neither do I accuse you.  Your burden is lifted, sin no more."  That sounds like someone with some compassion who does not bombard you with a list of virtues to accomplish.  William and James are speaking of extreme circumstances, which requires delicate care of your speech and help, and not a haphazard teaching from Christ. 
In my view I am just as Guilty as a mass murderer.

In an earlier post I spoke of having the same problems with forgiving things done to me . Every day I struggle with them, and I will bet they were worse than most.

I try to forgive them for my own soul and well being. I am not addressing the object of our hatred here, I am addressing the one who is not forgiving, which only hurts them more.
I have always said to people that if you become hateful, or harden your heart because what others do to you, then they have won, but it is really satan who has victory.
Were they as bad as crucifying the Son of God who said "Forgive them for they know not what they do"?

I am truly guilty as you say, please forgive me.
my issue with you is not what you're saying here, but saying that not forgiving will lead you to hell. It may work with a kid whose toy car was crushed by a big car by accident, but it doesn't work for victims of some serious problems in the world. My point is know when and what to say to people.  Not every person gets the same lesson.  Every person have different capabilities at different times.  You can't condemn someone with a lesser capability to hell if they are yet to be healed first.
 
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I am a victim, and it has precedent in counseling alcoholics and addicts who think that they are victims, that is why the best therapy is with others who have been there. Which as I said , I have.

I am also aware that I sometimes overdo it or am not using the right approach. But that is what happens at AA\NA groups too, we are here to share our best and worst too.

Again though, I am sorry if I am causing anyone distress, I often worry about that, but a priest once said to me to be myself, and that is what I am doing.

 

Maria

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We all have "issues" because not one of us is perfect.

If we pray for our enemies and those who harm us, and can honestly say that we are praying for them and do not wish their damnation, then we have forgiven them. Now, our level of forgiveness cannot possibly measure that of Christ's, when He was on the Cross and prayed, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." is a slightly higher calling.

Sometimes in our human weakness, the best we can do for those who have offended us is to ignore and avoid those people, lest we commit some offense against them that may cause their damnation and ours too.

Nevertheless, we can and should pray for their salvation.
 

Apples

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TheTrisagion said:
kelly said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Mozes_Kor

Kor received international attention when she publicly forgave the Nazis for what had been done to her.
If one of Dr. Mengele's patients can find forgiveness in her heart for the Nazis...
It is because her ethical standards are not higher than most religions.  When they get that high, she would find the strength to cease her forgiveness.
She'll feel like forgiving him is not necessary for her to move on and have a meaningful life, and not worry about being "imperfect" in that regard.
 

minasoliman

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Neither should feeling anger and hatred towards the person who did you wrong make you evil either.  It only makes you human.  And even when you do mistakes, as the adage goes, "to err is human, to forgive divine".  The point is eventually you will be over it, and you will need to work on that.

Here's a story that is similar to many stories online I found.  But I chose this one because her letter is the type of attitude attached to the idea behind forgiveness:

Today I am doing something you might not even realize you need; I am forgiving you for what you did and what you had robbed from me. I forgive you, dear Rapist; that is what I choose. To hate you would be easy, but to forgive you is one of the hardest things I have had to do. And that is just a testament to my power, the power that I now hold over you. But I will never forget it, nor do I want to. I have grown because I had to and I have learned to live again. Not many can share in my experience, but that is precisely what makes me a stronger and more beautiful person than I was before… that ugliness you made me live through and my capability, today, to overcome you.
Source

Forgiveness is victory, not victimization.
 
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minasoliman said:
Sad that you make yourself out to be an intellectual "gnostic", when you know nothing really.
Sad that you have to lie to make points.

Get the quote where I "make yourself out to be an intellectual "gnostic", or be known as a liar.

Regards
DL
 

minasoliman

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Greatest I am said:
minasoliman said:
Sad that you make yourself out to be an intellectual "gnostic", when you know nothing really.
Sad that you have to lie to make points.

Get the quote where I "make yourself out to be an intellectual "gnostic", or be known as a liar.

Regards
DL
lol!

I'm sorry, do you recognize what you write about yourself?  Or are you just unthinkingly type just to waste posts?
 
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Maria said:
We all have "issues" because not one of us is perfect.

If we pray for our enemies and those who harm us, and can honestly say that we are praying for them and do not wish their damnation, then we have forgiven them. Now, our level of forgiveness cannot possibly measure that of Christ's, when He was on the Cross and prayed, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." is a slightly higher calling.

Sometimes in our human weakness, the best we can do for those who have offended us is to ignore and avoid those people, lest we commit some offense against them that may cause their damnation and ours too.

Nevertheless, we can and should pray for their salvation.
God bless you.
 
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minasoliman said:
Neither should feeling anger and hatred towards the person who did you wrong make you evil either.  It only makes you human.  And even when you do mistakes, as the adage goes, "to err is human, to forgive divine".  The point is eventually you will be over it, and you will need to work on that.

Here's a story that is similar to many stories online I found.  But I chose this one because her letter is the type of attitude attached to the idea behind forgiveness:

Today I am doing something you might not even realize you need; I am forgiving you for what you did and what you had robbed from me. I forgive you, dear Rapist; that is what I choose. To hate you would be easy, but to forgive you is one of the hardest things I have had to do. And that is just a testament to my power, the power that I now hold over you. But I will never forget it, nor do I want to. I have grown because I had to and I have learned to live again. Not many can share in my experience, but that is precisely what makes me a stronger and more beautiful person than I was before… that ugliness you made me live through and my capability, today, to overcome you.
Source

Forgiveness is victory, not victimization.
Great story!The power to forgive is greater than any we have.
 

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Still dont know yet
Just thinking and a bit upset. Why does it seam when we read the bible God always gets the bad people. Now days seam God went on vacation. Look at Isis and other groups running a mouck hurting innocent people and yet God don't do anything like in the bible. Earth don't swallow them whole angles don't wipe them out. On top of it why do people always try to do Gods fight. If God could make this world this universe what makes you think he needs man to do his fighting for him. maybe if God took some action people would know he was real 
 

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Alveus Lacuna said:
I'm mad at God because delicious food makes me fat.
God does not make you eat it. ;)
 

quietmorning

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jewish voice said:
Just thinking and a bit upset. Why does it seam when we read the bible God always gets the bad people. Now days seam God went on vacation. Look at Isis and other groups running a mouck hurting innocent people and yet God don't do anything like in the bible. Earth don't swallow them whole angles don't wipe them out. On top of it why do people always try to do Gods fight. If God could make this world this universe what makes you think he needs man to do his fighting for him. maybe if God took some action people would know he was real 
I was wondering the same thing. . .but then I remembered in the books of the Prophets - He often used he bad guys to judge Israel - to bring Israel back to Him.  He always saved a remnant - those that did turn back to Him.  And THEN, he turned around and kicked the bad guys from here to Wednesday because they always were more brutal and unjust. . they didn't just punish Israel they went over and above and tried to wipe them out.  . . they never succeeded - and to boot they were the ones that were wiped out.

But I think about the Lords words at Mount Olive when He was looking at the Temple 'there will be wars and rumors of war' and 'not one stone will be left on another'.  Everything changed - everything absolutely completely changed when He suffered on the Cross.  Nothing is the same, it is a new covenant done a completely different way.  Were Danial was saved from the lions - the martyrs are put to death. . . and yet both glorify God.

The world as we know it is NOT the world yet to come.  The world as we know it now is NOT the world before Christ came.  It is completely different. 
 
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I wish I could be mad at him but he does all things for the good of me and all bad things come from Satan.
 

minasoliman

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jewish voice said:
Just thinking and a bit upset. Why does it seam when we read the bible God always gets the bad people. Now days seam God went on vacation. Look at Isis and other groups running a mouck hurting innocent people and yet God don't do anything like in the bible. Earth don't swallow them whole angles don't wipe them out. On top of it why do people always try to do Gods fight. If God could make this world this universe what makes you think he needs man to do his fighting for him. maybe if God took some action people would know he was real 
This feeling is not new though.  We always pray:  "Why, LORD, do you stand far off? Why do you hide yourself in times of trouble?" (Psalm 10).  This Psalm captures the reality of Israel's troubles.  Whenever they were successful, praise God, because it is Him, not us, who made success.  When they were in troubles, they either blamed themselves or were mad at God for leaving them all alone in the despair they are feeling.

But in Christ we learn the value of suffering, even when we do not like it.  It makes us discover ourselves and builds character, but if taken the wrong way, it could leave us in despair or give up hope on God or any goodness.  Sometimes, we wonder why suffering reminds us of religion.  It is strange, and it would be better if it were not so, that we were the most religious regardless.  But in our suffering, we are reminded much of our natural "nothingness", and that we have the choice to either gravitate to that nothingness or hold on to the last bastion of hope in God.  What is nice about the Old Testament is that when Israel is victorious in battles, they actually talk about their nothingness, that God is their strength, not themselves.  It is almost as if it is written in a time when they realize they are nothing and are suffering due to forgetting about that.

Christ who is rich went down into the pit of despair on the Cross and into Hell, so that He may show us not to give up hope, but God is even in the pit with us.  He does not desire military strength or power.  And enemies no longer exist, since Christ died as if an enemy and a criminal of state.  But Christ forgave, no longer seeking to conquer lands, but to conquer hearts.  That is why Christians suffer and accept to suffer, and even Christ warned, "peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you.  Not as the world gives, do I give to you.  Do not let your heart be troubled."
 

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jewish voice said:
Just thinking and a bit upset. Why does it seam when we read the bible God always gets the bad people. Now days seam God went on vacation. Look at Isis and other groups running a mouck hurting innocent people and yet God don't do anything like in the bible. Earth don't swallow them whole angles don't wipe them out. On top of it why do people always try to do Gods fight. If God could make this world this universe what makes you think he needs man to do his fighting for him. maybe if God took some action people would know he was real 
The point of this world is not for it to be a eutopia. The point of this world is to choose God, that we may be with him in eternal bliss. Rejecting God because of the evils that men (with free will) do is ridiculous--it really means you're siding with the ones that do evil, who do whatever they want because they think there is no God of justice.
 

minasoliman

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This is also helpful to understand:

51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.
(Luke 9)
 

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Greatest I am said:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian, but if God is as described above, should all moral men not be angry with this Christian version of God?

In fact, why would anyone of sound mind want such a God as his God?

Regards
DL
Every social justice buzzword in the dictionary is in that quote. Notice how atheists love to judge Christianity by the null Old Covenant and the Hebrew Bible. All they can say about the New Testament is St. Paul's condemnation against sexual immorality, which is (somehow) oppressive. Or that out-of-context quote about women being quiet in church,
 

minasoliman

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Amatorus said:
Greatest I am said:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I do not believe in the Christian God, I am a Gnostic Christian, but if God is as described above, should all moral men not be angry with this Christian version of God?

In fact, why would anyone of sound mind want such a God as his God?

Regards
DL
Every social justice buzzword in the dictionary is in that quote. Notice how atheists love to judge Christianity by the null Old Covenant and the Hebrew Bible. All they can say about the New Testament is St. Paul's condemnation against sexual immorality, which is (somehow) oppressive. Or that out-of-context quote about women being quiet in church,
He won't be able to reply to you.  His temporary unmuted status was a glitch.
 
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