Why is Orthodoxy a declining denomination?

[Luke]

“Every creature of God is good and not to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving.” Since God did not sanctify unclean creatures to be eaten with thanksgiving, this verse refers to every clean creature.

That is incorrect.

 

[andrewlya]

No, because it's the only command retained in Acts 15 that is binding on Christians. However, this is because "the life is in the blood", and not because it's unclean in itself.

You didn't answer my question. Which meats were the false teachers in Timothy 4 saying to abstain from?

Which particular verse are you referring to in relation of meat?

 

[andrewlya]

That is incorrect.

It is incorrect that God had given us commandments on what is clean and what is unclean meat?

 

[Luke]

Which particular verse are you referring to in relation of meat?

It is incorrect that you apply it as a command to Christians. If you want to abstain from certain foods, you are permitted to do do, because we have freedom in Christ. It is not up to me to tell you what to eat. Neither is it up to you to tell me what to eat.

 

[Gloria Tibi Trinitas]

Pork products, particularly liver, frequently carry hepatitis E, which can cause severe complications and even death in vulnerable populations

Millions upon millions of people eat pork all the time.

 

[Gloria Tibi Trinitas]

Which particular verse are you referring to in relation of meat?

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

 

[andrewlya]

Millions upon millions of people eat pork all the time.

They do, but it's harmful. So many people smoke and take drugs, because they can, but is it good for them in the long term?

 

[andrewlya]

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Some people in the church of the first century were “departing from the faith” teaching false doctrines. These people were advocating celibacy (forbidding to marry) Catholics still forbid priests to marry to this day, and vegetarianism or abstaining from certain foods or meats that God actually allows to eat. This teaching or doctrine was forbidding activities that God desires His children to do. God certainly ordained for us to marry and He created certain clean foods “to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth". I believe they were heretics that were forbidding to eat things that God allowed us to eat. Those who believe and know the truth will know what to eat and what not to. The truth contained in the Scriptures which is our guide to correct diet as 1Timothy 4:1-5 warns us not to believe a doctrine which tells us not to eat foods that God has permitted for us to eat.

 

[andrewlya]

Anyway, each to their own. At the end of the day, I can't judge you for what you eat. I just need to remind you of the God's law the rest is up to you. You can mock me if you wish, but I'm not saying anything of my own. I quote Bible and the laws that are given by God by which we should live. I'll try not to get engaged in this topic in this threat. It has been exhausted. Blessings

 

[Arachne]

God says not eat swine because it's bad for you. It's a dirty animal that eats everything and shouldn't be eaten by humans.

No, he doesn't. That obligation was given to only a very specific set of the human population, as part of their spiritual discipline. Billions of non-Jews have been eating pork for millennia without adverse effects, and the Church decided, as it was her prerogative, very early on that gentiles who became Christians did not have to follow Jewish dietary laws.

Plenty of people are allergic to milk products, but there's nothing wrong with milk products. Plenty of people will die if they as much as touch a peanut, but peanuts are not in any way unclean. Our inability to enjoy foodstuffs to the fullest has to do with the susceptibility to illness that is part of fallen human nature. The idea alone that something was created by God as harmful to humans is absurd.

 

[FULK NERA]

Ok, so when Jesus said it's not what goes into a man but what goes out he said before his resurrection so how clean food law was abolished at that point?

Kosher was NEVER incumbent on gentiles. What is so difficult about this? But I see you are blind to a major fact, that Jesus did not die on the Cross, harrow Hades and Resurrect to make us all ‘Jews’. He abolished the curse of the Law by taking it upon Himself blameless though He be, and able to raise himself as God. Your doctrine is graceless.

 

[FULK NERA]

Your not Greek if you haven't eaten a Souvlaki.

Are there really only two kinds of people? Inquiring minds want to know.
Also, I love both kinds of music, Country AND Western.

 

[FULK NERA]

So, does Orthodoxy teach you are not under obligation to follow any of the Old Testament commandments?

But didn't Christ answer when asked how one can be saved, he said you know the Commandments...if you say you are not under the Old Testament laws, then what are you now allowed to kill, cheat, lie, disrespect your parents, commit adultery etc Torah also teaches that a believer is to believe in One God and pray to God, it teaches not to be revengeful, help the poor and needy etc. These are all Torah laws, why would you not be under those laws? I'm not saying we earn our salvation as it's a free gift, but ain't we supposed to live by God's biblical guidances if we are truly saved and have faith? Like Apostles James said that one will show his faith by his works.

So if a gentile (not even a circumcised Jew) eats pork he has broken every law of Moses and apostatized from the worship of God. You and your insignificant band who sprung up yesterday like grass on the rooftop, flourish (sic) today, wither by sunset and tomorrow will be cast into the furnace as so much tinder, have the probity and wisdom to judge the entire Church of Christ as apostate, because they somehow missed the entire point of the Gospel, which is that every male should be circumcised and keep the whole of the law, ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT NOT EATING PORK. But also we are saved by grace alone and works don’t count. What else did all the apostate men and women of the last 20 centuries miss that you and your enlightened band of Judaizers keep?

 

[FULK NERA]

Acts 10:13

And then there came a voice saying to him, Rise, Peter, kill and eat.

I already quoted this in full and OP ignored it. He’s a crank and he’s yanking our cranks. There is no point to this.

 

[FULK NERA]

Just to note I'm not a sabellian. Arian theology makes sense, yes.

Romans 14: Does It Abolish the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats?

Some believe Romans 14 teaches that Christians do not need to obey the law about clean and unclean animals. The context points to other conclusions.

lifehopeandtruth.com

Hope this answers your question.


Text of article removed and replaced with a link and preview. --Ainnir

OK , so OP admits he’s an Arian. And emulating that heresiarch, he is steadfast in his denial of Christ as revealed in the Church which gave birth to the Gospel. What became of Arius?

 

[FULK NERA]

Well Jews wether they are Messianic or not, will not EAT pork or unclean food. I mean even the ones that accept the Messiah will only eat clean food. So gentiles are different they can pollute their bodies with swine and other dirty animals, because they can right? I hope you don't pray over the swine when you eat it next time.We shouldn't eat just because Christ would not it and he never did

If being a Jew requires abstaining from pork and gentile Christians are not pretending to be bad Jews, I will always pray before eating anything, including shellfish, pork, beef stroganoff (sour cream sauce) and blood pudding. If it hurts your Jewish conscience that we gentiles should continue to ignore rules never meant for us, that’s fine. At least we aren’t judging YOU.

 

[andrewlya]

If being a Jew requires abstaining from pork and gentile Christians are not pretending to be bad Jews, I will always pray before eating anything, including shellfish, pork, beef stroganoff (sour cream sauce) and blood pudding. If it hurts your Jewish conscience that we gentiles should continue to ignore rules never meant for us, that’s fine. At least we aren’t judging YOU.

"Blood pudding" so much from abstaining from food with blood in it. Can't even follow a simple command even as clarified in the Acts...it's ok rebel against God's laws all you like.

 

[FULK NERA]

"Blood pudding" so much from abstaining from food with blood in it. Can't even follow a simple command even as clarified in the Acts...it's ok rebel against God's laws all you like.

You, the ultra-scrupulous wannabe-Jew, offend your conscience by our eating something as delicious and nutritious as blood pudding. You’d do better to stick to your chicken broth and gefilte. As we have made abundantly clear, your scruples won’t save you and our cuisine won’t damn us. You are offended by us, then don’t afflict yourself by associating with Orthodox people you badly need to judge. This is the worst kind of phariseeism.

 

[Tzimis]

"Blood pudding" so much from abstaining from food with blood in it. Can't even follow a simple command even as clarified in the Acts...it's ok rebel against God's laws all you like.

Even those new vegan beyond burgers have blood in them. All meat. Where do you think it gets its color from?

 

[biro]

If you want to know:

Vegan Burger Meat, Crumbles, & Sausages | Beyond Meat

Beyond Meat is plant-based, vegan meat that's tasty & better for you and for our planet. Find us in the meat aisle or subscribe for Beyond Meat delivery.

www.beyondmeat.com

 

[Stinky]

If you want to know:

Vegan Burger Meat, Crumbles, & Sausages | Beyond Meat

Beyond Meat is plant-based, vegan meat that's tasty & better for you and for our planet. Find us in the meat aisle or subscribe for Beyond Meat delivery.

www.beyondmeat.com

My daughter prefers this to hamburger and we use it for spaghetti, sloppy joes, tacos. I like the chicken patties!

 

[DeniseDenise]

Are we declining (if we are....) because we eat pork.....nah....no way... because all the other non messianic eat pork too...and so there is no correlation to our following OT food rules or not.


Next silly reason?

 

[FULK NERA]

Are we declining (if we are....) because we eat pork.....nah....no way... because all the other non messianic eat pork too...and so there is no correlation to our following OT food rules or not.


Next silly reason?

Yes, I admit my parish is shrinking because we eat pork. Who else will confess this heinous sin?

 

[Luke]

 

[TheTrisagion]

Saint Peter says this in Acts 15:

18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

As a Gentile who turned to God, this is what I follow. I have found nothing in Scripture that tells me that this teaching is wrong or ungodly.

 

[Tzimis]

Saint Peter says this in Acts 15:

18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

As a Gentile who turned to God, this is what I follow. I have found nothing in Scripture that tells me that this teaching is wrong or ungodly.

This is a classic case of mistranslated text. και του αιματος Loosly translated means blood offerings or animal sacrifice.

 

[FULK NERA]

Matheson the Master. He also wrote I Am Legend. One of those talents whose work often makes it to screenplay versions. Bet he never touched pork in his entire life. Prove me wrong.

 

[TheTrisagion]

This is a classic case of mistranslated text. και του αιματος Loosly translated means blood offerings or animal sacrifice.

My point was that it doesn't say anything about pork.

 

[Gloria Tibi Trinitas]

This is a classic case of mistranslated text. και του αιματος Loosly translated means blood offerings or animal sacrifice.

Canon LXIII (63) of the Apostles: If any bishop, or presbyter or deacon or anyone else on the sacerdotal list at all, eat meat in the blood of its soul, or that has been killed by a wild beast, or that has died a natural death, let him be deposed. For the Law has forbidden this. But if any layman do the same let him be excommunicated.

Canon LXVII (67) from the Quinesext Council: Divine Scripture has commanded us to ‘abstain from blood, and strangled flesh and fornication’ (Gen 9:3-4, Lev 17 & 18:3, Acts 15: 28-29). We therefore suitably penance those who on account of their dainty stomach eat the blood of any animal after they have rendered it eatable by some art. If therefore anyone from now on should attempt to eat the blood of any animal in any way whatsoever, if he be a clergyman, let him be deposed from office; but if he be a layman let him be excommunicated

 

[J Michael]

Yes, I admit my parish is shrinking because we eat pork. Who else will confess this heinous sin?

I could stand to shrink a little bit. Would eating pork help facilitate this?

 

[Tzimis]

Canon LXIII (63) of the Apostles: If any bishop, or presbyter or deacon or anyone else on the sacerdotal list at all, eat meat in the blood of its soul, or that has been killed by a wild beast, or that has died a natural death, let him be deposed. For the Law has forbidden this. But if any layman do the same let him be excommunicated.

Canon LXVII (67) from the Quinesext Council: Divine Scripture has commanded us to ‘abstain from blood, and strangled flesh and fornication’ (Gen 9:3-4, Lev 17 & 18:3, Acts 15: 28-29). We therefore suitably penance those who on account of their dainty stomach eat the blood of any animal after they have rendered it eatable by some art. If therefore anyone from now on should attempt to eat the blood of any animal in any way whatsoever, if he be a clergyman, let him be deposed from office; but if he be a layman let him be excommunicated

These pertain too bleeding out animals pryer to consumption. Its a common practice for butchers to do this because after death blood coagulates and ruins the meat. They cut the animals throat and hang it by the rear legs to drain its blood.
The meat would be unclean for consumption otherwise.
Read the canons clearly and with this knowledge.
Kill by beasts, nature death or strangulation are three instances where blood is left inside the animal.
Secondly, I don't eat blood. I know some Italians that do eat blood sausages.
I would never do it.

 

[Luke]

 

[Tzimis]

Most of these restrictions were put in place before refrigeration. Pork was considered a dirty animal because it would eat dead things. These day's they are pent up. Any animals that eat dead carcasses tends to get Trichinosis, which is deadly to humans.
Most of these restrictions in the OT are for hygienic purposes.
While I personally would never eat blood, I know that northern european monks had all types of recipes for it.

 

[FULK NERA]

I could stand to shrink a little bit. Would eating pork help facilitate this?

No it will bloat you and cause you to stink. Why flout Divine authority?

 

[andrewlya]

I already quoted this in full and OP ignored it. He’s a crank and he’s yanking our cranks. There is no point to this.

It just shows a lack of Scripture knowledge,does not it? No offence.
My question when Peter saw the vision, did he eat pork or any of the unclean foods? No, he refused 3 times. Have you actually read the passage in its entirety and understood it?

Peter goes on to say, “but God has showed me that I should not call any man “common/unholy” or “unclean”. That is why I came promptly to you, as soon as I was asked to come”. It is very clear, by reading this admission, that Peter understood his vision the moment the 3 men asked him to come with them to Ceasarea. He understood that “God had showed” him the vision concerning not calling any man “Common/Unholy” and “Unclean”. Putting no difference between a person who knows God, and a person who is searching for God.

So, this vision was NOTHING to do with sudden permission of eating the unclean meats such as pork, that is why Peter refused to it and rightly so, follow his example and refuse also to eat anything unclean. This was the vision about the gentile people being clean. Now you know. Thank you for reading this.

 

[andrewlya]

So if a gentile (not even a circumcised Jew) eats pork he has broken every law of Moses and apostatized from the worship of God. You and your insignificant band who sprung up yesterday like grass on the rooftop, flourish (sic) today, wither by sunset and tomorrow will be cast into the furnace as so much tinder, have the probity and wisdom to judge the entire Church of Christ as apostate, because they somehow missed the entire point of the Gospel, which is that every male should be circumcised and keep the whole of the law, ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT NOT EATING PORK. But also we are saved by grace alone and works don’t count. What else did all the apostate men and women of the last 20 centuries miss that you and your enlightened band of Judaizers keep?

' But also we are saved by grace alone and works don’t count. '

You sound like a Protestant, from my knowledge Orthodoxy does not teach "faith alone" doctrine, Orthodoxy is about faith and works. It's a continual process of salvation.

 

[andrewlya]

I already quoted this in full and OP ignored it. He’s a crank and he’s yanking our cranks. There is no point to this.

You can call me a crank, fine. But I would rather be a crank and follow what my God commands to eat or not to.

 

[Tzimis]

It just shows a lack of Scripture knowledge,does not it? No offence.
My question when Peter saw the vision, did he eat pork or any of the unclean foods? No, he refused 3 times. Have you actually read the passage in its entirety and understood it?

Peter goes on to say, “but God has showed me that I should not call any man “common/unholy” or “unclean”. That is why I came promptly to you, as soon as I was asked to come”. It is very clear, by reading this admission, that Peter understood his vision the moment the 3 men asked him to come with them to Ceasarea. He understood that “God had showed” him the vision concerning not calling any man “Common/Unholy” and “Unclean”. Putting no difference between a person who knows God, and a person who is searching for God.

So, this vision was NOTHING to do with sudden permission of eating the unclean meats such as pork, that is why Peter refused to it and rightly so, follow his example and refuse also to eat anything unclean. This was the vision about the gentile people being clean. Now you know. Thank you for reading this.

I hit the like button by mistake.
Christian Jews can follow there tradition and abstain from eating pork.
Question is are you a jew or are you a Greek, because Greeks or everyone else doesn't have to abide.

 

[Stinky]

I hit the like button by mistake.
Christian Jews can follow there tradition and abstain from eating pork.
Question is are you a jew or are you a Greek, because Greeks or everyone else doesn't have to abide.

Hit it again and it clears the like.

 

[andrewlya]

I hit the like button by mistake.
Christian Jews can follow there tradition and abstain from eating pork.
Question is are you a jew or are you a Greek, because Greeks or everyone else doesn't have to abide.

Eating pork is not a tradition, it is a Commandment ' And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. '- Leviticus 11 .
A tradition would be crossing yourself like Orthodox do, that's a tradition not a God's commandment.