Why is there no second ode sung for the Katavasiae

[BasilCan]

THE KATAVASIAE OF THE ENTRANCE CANON IN TONE FOUR​

Ode 1. I shall open my mouth and it will be filled with the Spirit; and I shall speak forth to the Queen and Mother. I shall be seen joyfully singing her praises, and I shall rejoice in her Entrance with gladness.

Ode 3. As a living and copious fountain, O Theotokos, (etc.)

Above sample taken from Antiochian liturgics but seems to be the same in Greek and Romanian practice.

I had someone tell me the Second ode was dropped as it was originally written for Lucifer?????

 

[JTLoganville]

The (Second) Song of Moses (Deuteronomy 32:1-43) is somewhat impreccatory, therefore it is used only during Great Lent.

 

[BasilCan]

I just read, with intention for probably the first time, the Second Song of Moses and now I understand. Yes, it is somewhat imprecatory, but understood on context. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[augustin717]

I think that Lucifer gloss even appears in some of the rubrics, or at least in some (semi)official explanations of the office.

 

[FULK NERA]

THE KATAVASIAE OF THE ENTRANCE CANON IN TONE FOUR​

Ode 1. I shall open my mouth and it will be filled with the Spirit; and I shall speak forth to the Queen and Mother. I shall be seen joyfully singing her praises, and I shall rejoice in her Entrance with gladness.

Ode 3. As a living and copious fountain, O Theotokos, (etc.)

Above sample taken from Antiochian liturgics but seems to be the same in Greek and Romanian practice.

I had someone tell me the Second ode was dropped as it was originally written for Lucifer?????

Whatever happened to the consciousness of the Matins Canon(s)? You know the term ‘katavasiae’ is relevant only to the suppressed Canon, vestigial remnant of it, and often merely a repetition of the Hirmoi which are not topical to the feast at hand, being derived from Biblical Canticles.
The second Ode of the Canon was suppressed because of its penitential character supposedly being deemed off-key for Sunday Resurrectional celebration.

 

[Dominika]

Whatever happened to the consciousness of the Matins Canon(s)? You know the term ‘katavasiae’ is relevant only to the suppressed Canon, vestigial remnant of it, and often merely a repetition of the Hirmoi which are not topical to the feast at hand, being derived from Biblical Canticles.
The second Ode of the Canon was suppressed because of its penitential character supposedly being deemed off-key for Sunday Resurrectional celebration.

Katavasia, ofc, in some practces are supression. But in fact it is part of canon, when two choirs (left and right) should join together in chant (sometiems even people joining together from both side of church, of course now it's practiced maybe in a few places in the world), plus katavasia mark, let's say, area of the feast that is coming (like now, Nativity) or the feast that is celebrated now.

 

[ilyazhito]

In current ROCOR practice, katavasiae are sung for odes 3, 6, 8, and 9. They are sung for odes 3,6, and 9 because they will be followed by the little litany, and for ode 8, because it will be followed by the deacon's verse and the Song of the Theotokos, or for Great Feasts, Ode 9. On Pascha, all odes (except the 2nd) and katavasiae are sung.

The 2nd is not done outside of Great Lent because it is penitential. It comes from Deuteronomy where Moses was upbraiding the People of Israel.

 

[Bizzlebin]

The (Second) Song of Moses (Deuteronomy 32:1-43) is somewhat impreccatory, therefore it is used only during Great Lent.

I've heard the same explanation before, but I'm much less less inclined to "buy it" now since I can't recall a good reference to primary sources. It also seems strange that it is being called out as impreccatory, or penitential, or some similar adjective when at the same time we have no problem with the hymn to the cross ("Grant victory...over their adversaries"), the antiphons (in Slavic traditions, that includes such spicy phrases as "He will not always chide, nor will He keep His anger forever.", "When his breath departs, he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish.", and "Who executes justice for the oppressed"), the Six Psalms at Matins, the prayers for civil authorities (who do...lots of things), and so on—and we are going up at communion to drink blood. I'm currently thinking of alternative options (such as it being the longest ode by verse count—and twice the average ode—so it is more difficult to deal with, the numerological concerns (an 8 "beats" out a 9, unless we're specifically taking about angels or some other number 9 reference), and so on), but perhaps @Cavaradossi or someone else who has studied the history of liturgics more deeply can give a primary-sourced answer (if that's possible).

 

[Dominika]

In current ROCOR practice, katavasiae are sung for odes 3, 6, 8, and 9. They are sung for odes 3,6, and 9 because they will be followed by the little litany, and for ode 8, because it will be followed by the deacon's verse and the Song of the Theotokos, or for Great Feasts, Ode 9. On Pascha, all odes (except the 2nd) and katavasiae are sung.

I suppose also from the Entrance of the Theotokos the Nativity katavasia (at least that's Polish practice and the rest as you've described)?...

 

[brlon]

Katavasias are sung at the conclusion of odes 3, 6, 8, and 9 on 'ordinary' or 'week' days. On Sundays and other 'greater' or feast days they should be sung after each ode. The katavasia sung at the end of an ode recapitulates and brings to a conclusion the theme taken from the relevant canticle, allowing us to leave it and to move on to the theme of the next canticle.

Throughout the year the katavasias follow a sequence where the poetic elaboration joined to the theme of the canticle directs us to the next upcoming feast. So, broadly speaking (details can be tracked down elsewhere), from mid November to December katavasias are taken from the Nativity canon; later, after Nativity, they are taken from the canon of Theophany. Katavasias of Pentecost follow Ascension; katavasias of the Cross lead from August to the Exaltation in September. At other times katavasias may be taken from the canon to the Theotokos, rather like an additional Theotokion.

[And, just to complicate (enhance) matters, for example, the ninth ode at Nativity of the Lord has two katavasias!]

 

[Fr.Andrei]

My church is OCA. When we serve Matins, we do the Katavasia after each ode. Because I only have one chanter, we don't have Matins every Sunday. We have started serving them now because we are in the Nativity Fast. We also serve them for most feast days and during the Lenten Triodion period. Also, on all the Sundays from Paschal to Ascension.

 

[ilyazhito]

I suppose also from the Entrance of the Theotokos the Nativity katavasia (at least that's Polish practice and the rest as you've described)?...

Yes. The katavasia of the Nativity start from then. As of this past Sunday, the katavasia were the ordinary "I shall open my mouth". At some point this week, the katavasia to the Entrance of the Theotokos will be sung. Nativity katavasia will start with the Vigil on Saturday evening (or Matins on Sunday).

 

[ilyazhito]

Katavasias are sung at the conclusion of odes 3, 6, 8, and 9 on 'ordinary' or 'week' days. On Sundays and other 'greater' or feast days they should be sung after each ode. The katavasia sung at the end of an ode recapitulates and brings to a conclusion the theme taken from the relevant canticle, allowing us to leave it and to move on to the theme of the next canticle.

Throughout the year the katavasias follow a sequence where the poetic elaboration joined to the theme of the canticle directs us to the next upcoming feast. So, broadly speaking (details can be tracked down elsewhere), from mid November to December katavasias are taken from the Nativity canon; later, after Nativity, they are taken from the canon of Theophany. Katavasias of Pentecost follow Ascension; katavasias of the Cross lead from August to the Exaltation in September. At other times katavasias may be taken from the canon to the Theotokos, rather like an additional Theotokion.

[And, just to complicate (enhance) matters, for example, the ninth ode at Nativity of the Lord has two katavasias!]

I agree. If it were up to me, katavasiae would be sung after every ode on Sundays and for feasts.

 

[Dominika]

Yes. The katavasia of the Nativity start from then. As of this past Sunday, the katavasia were the ordinary "I shall open my mouth". At some point this week, the katavasia to the Entrance of the Theotokos will be sung. Nativity katavasia will start with the Vigil on Saturday evening (or Matins on Sunday).

Or started, depending of course on calendar. I mean however, that those katavasia are chanted after all odes, not just "chosen ones" (the nes followed by ekteny).

 

[RaphaCam]

I think that Lucifer gloss even appears in some of the rubrics, or at least in some (semi)official explanations of the office.

I'm glad I didn't physically laugh about it, that's awful.