• Please remember: Pray for Ukraine in the Prayer forum; Share news in the Christian News section; Discuss religious implications in FFA: Religious Topics; Discuss political implications in Politics (and if you don't have access, PM me) Thank you! + Fr. George, Forum Administrator

Why should I be Oriental Orthodox?

peterfarrington

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
3,559
Reaction score
84
Points
48
Age
59
Location
Maidstone, Kent, England
Website
www.stgeorgeministry.com
Faith
Coptic Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Patriarchal Diocese
With regard to RCs I thinl you need to say what you consider substantially different, since the list of things that are the same, especially even 50 years ago, is very long.
 

WPM

Taxiarches
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
7,775
Reaction score
14
Points
0
Age
39
Faith
Ethiopian Jew
I think my problem is doing it myself instead of waiting for His Calling . . Was it a mistake to attend Orthodox Church Services and then not convert? . . .FYI
 

peterfarrington

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
3,559
Reaction score
84
Points
48
Age
59
Location
Maidstone, Kent, England
Website
www.stgeorgeministry.com
Faith
Coptic Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Patriarchal Diocese
If you think you should be Orthodox and decide not to then that is one thing. If you quite like being around Orthodox but don't have some clear sense of what you should be doing then that is another thing.
 

noahzarc1

High Elder
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
763
Reaction score
74
Points
28
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
Where one wants to find similarities between Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy they can, they are there. Where one wants to find differences, one can find them, they are there. I am sure the Orthodox convert's view of Orthodoxy is quite different than that of a cradle Orthodox Christian. Similarly, I found the Roman Catholic convert (especially in the last 50 years) has a much different and perhaps positive view of Rome than say a cradle Catholic. It is not that one is better than the other. I just think converts find exactly what they are looking for, and they are at home and content. The cradle believer however can be affected by stagnation or routine ritual.
 

augustin717

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
7,026
Reaction score
107
Points
63
Faith
Higher Criticism
Jurisdiction
Dutch
In România when the  late patriarch Teoctist let the  Copts use some church in Bucharest, there was a pretty large demonstration of very observant and strict Orthodox demanding the re-consecration of the church soiled by the “Monophysites/ Severians”.
 

peterfarrington

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
3,559
Reaction score
84
Points
48
Age
59
Location
Maidstone, Kent, England
Website
www.stgeorgeministry.com
Faith
Coptic Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Patriarchal Diocese
I agree with all you say about converts and cradle believers in general.

My own view is that the Catholic Church remains an Apostolic Church, but with some defects, in the same way that the OO regarded the EO as an Apostolic Church but with some defects. When I compare the Catholic Church, with those defects from my perspective, it is still vastly more similar to Orthodoxy in general than the Evangelical communities I grew up in, who had almost nothing in common with practical Orthodoxy in general, beyond core theological concepts.

I would probably also consider the ACE an Apostolic Church, with areas that need clarification.

I look for the similarities to build on in increasing fellowship and community in truth and love. And I am very far from being a liberal modernist. I am very traditional in my Orthodoxy. But I hope I am not a pseudo-traditionalist. I do know the reality of history, and it is not what the noisy people often imagine it to be.

It is also the case that many of the things that might be most in need of dialogue with Catholics are very modern, or not even Catholic in the wider sense, ut Western and Latin. I have spoken with older Catholic bishops who remember the spirituality of their childhood being much more like Orthodoxy. And things like the Eucharistic Fast were only reduced and more or less abolished in recent times. Catholicism, if I may speak from my perspective and not intending to be patronising, can become Orthodox-Catholic again by returning to her own Tradition. This is never possible for Evangelicals, for instance.

But with Evangelicals, I also look for areas of common ground, and not all the differences.
 

Alpha60

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
16
Points
0
Location
Alphaville Zone Sud
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox
augustin717 said:
In România when the  late patriarch Teoctist let the  Copts use some church in Bucharest, there was a pretty large demonstration of very observant and strict Orthodox demanding the re-consecration of the church soiled by the “Monophysites/ Severians”.
Well, so what?  The people frequently get stirred up by troublemakers into protesting the actions of the hierarchs.  And sometimes they are right, for example, those who followed St. Mark of Ephesus or St. Athanasius of Alexandria, and in other cases, such as this scenario, or the Novatians, or the Donatists, or the followers of Pope Honorius I, or the Jansenists, or the Scottish reformation, they are in error.  This is a red herring, in that it does not relate to the validity of OO-EO relations, and also, we do not have any data on how the average Romanian feels about the OO or how well catechized they are on this issue (it is up to the bishops and the priests to follow in the example of Patriarch Ignatius IV of Antioch, memory eternal, and his successor, Patriarch John X, and Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, in teaching their flock about the Oriental churches, their historic Orthodoxy, the historic confusion of them with the monophysite followers of Eutyches and John Philoponus, the contributions of Oriental Orthodox theologians like St. Severus to Eastern Orthodox liturgy and theology, and the need for a full restoration of communion.
 

peterfarrington

Protokentarchos
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
3,559
Reaction score
84
Points
48
Age
59
Location
Maidstone, Kent, England
Website
www.stgeorgeministry.com
Faith
Coptic Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Patriarchal Diocese
I have many Romanian friends, even started learning Romanian. In my previous congregation I had many Romanians worship with me, and receive communion. I married some, baptised the children of others. Added a little Romanian to the Liturgy at Holy Pascha.

There was nothing they needed to do to BECOME Orthodox. They were Orthodox, and I didn't ask them to become something else. The fact that they wanted to pray with me was confession of common faith enough. The Fathers of the OO were clear that no obstacle should be placed in the way of laity being received.
 

Alpha60

Taxiarches
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
16
Points
0
Location
Alphaville Zone Sud
Faith
Christian
Jurisdiction
Orthodox
Father Peter said:
I have many Romanian friends, even started learning Romanian. In my previous congregation I had many Romanians worship with me, and receive communion. I married some, baptised the children of others. Added a little Romanian to the Liturgy at Holy Pascha.

There was nothing they needed to do to BECOME Orthodox. They were Orthodox, and I didn't ask them to become something else. The fact that they wanted to pray with me was confession of common faith enough. The Fathers of the OO were clear that no obstacle should be placed in the way of laity being received.
+1

The best ever comfession I had was with a Romanian hieromonk filling in at a non-Romanian OCA parish.  The local Romanian community is extremely friendly, and the priest is a likeanle chap, but also a rare example, in the US, of someone who is suspicious of people partaking of tne Eucharist more than a few times a year (the influence of St. John of Kronstadt, the Kollyvades Brothers and so on being strong here).
 

WPM

Taxiarches
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
7,775
Reaction score
14
Points
0
Age
39
Faith
Ethiopian Jew
Father Peter said:
There was nothing they needed to do to BECOME Orthodox. They were Orthodox, and I didn't ask them to become something else. The fact that they wanted to pray with me was confession of common faith enough. The Fathers of the OO were clear that no obstacle should be placed in the way of laity being received.
I thought you had to put in struggle and effort to be Orthodox.
 

noahzarc1

High Elder
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
763
Reaction score
74
Points
28
Faith
Orthodox
Jurisdiction
Antioch
Father Peter said:
I agree with all you say about converts and cradle believers in general.

My own view is that the Catholic Church remains an Apostolic Church, but with some defects, in the same way that the OO regarded the EO as an Apostolic Church but with some defects. When I compare the Catholic Church, with those defects from my perspective, it is still vastly more similar to Orthodoxy in general than the Evangelical communities I grew up in, who had almost nothing in common with practical Orthodoxy in general, beyond core theological concepts.

I would probably also consider the ACE an Apostolic Church, with areas that need clarification.

I look for the similarities to build on in increasing fellowship and community in truth and love. And I am very far from being a liberal modernist. I am very traditional in my Orthodoxy. But I hope I am not a pseudo-traditionalist. I do know the reality of history, and it is not what the noisy people often imagine it to be.

It is also the case that many of the things that might be most in need of dialogue with Catholics are very modern, or not even Catholic in the wider sense, ut Western and Latin. I have spoken with older Catholic bishops who remember the spirituality of their childhood being much more like Orthodoxy. And things like the Eucharistic Fast were only reduced and more or less abolished in recent times. Catholicism, if I may speak from my perspective and not intending to be patronising, can become Orthodox-Catholic again by returning to her own Tradition. This is never possible for Evangelicals, for instance.

But with Evangelicals, I also look for areas of common ground, and not all the differences.
I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church just after Vatican II, having left the church in the mid-90's. I can distinctly recall a conservatism in our parish which slowly kept eroding. I was a protestant for 20 years when I discovered Orthodoxy in 2014. I can recall my first Orthodox liturgy and recapturing something that was lost but also probably like I never knew until then. When I return home I've attended mass at the Catholic church I grew up in (the last time being my dad's funeral last year) and the church is much more modern than it was in the 70's (early 80's) and even than what it was in the 90's. This may be due to the fact that the monsignor who ran our parish in the 70's and 80's was ordained long before Vatican II and had a sense of the orthodoxy in Catholicism you speak of.

As for Protestants, they have to get over the anti-Catholic bias before they can even seen Orthodoxy. The danger for them and the Church is bringing an anti-Catholic bias into Orthodoxy that doesn't belong there. The protestant can find Orthodoxy, but they must really look and will often have a real uphill challenge if they had no prior exposure to anything like Anglicanism or Episcopalianism, but it can be done.

Even I struggled with the similarities when I first discovered Orthodoxy. I am thankful for an Orthodox priest who helped me through the similarities and differences and it was the reason I went home to Rome for a few years so as to erase some of the protestant led biases. I am glad I did that and came to celebrate the similarities. When I left Rome the second time, it was for the errors I felt she persisted in namely Vatican I and II, but I think largely much of the post Trent church has had problems. Thank you for your insight. 
 
Top