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Women’s Headcoverings

PeterTheAleut

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Pravoslavac said:
My grandpa used to force un-married women in our family to wear head-coverings everywhere, not only in church. When he died, God rest his soul, women were freed. He died in 1997.
This thread isn't about you.
 

andrewlya

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PeterTheAleut said:
biro said:
andrewlya said:
Alxandra said:
I would love to see this more in our western churches :)
Do young women in your churches wear head coverings?


"What is the Scriptural and Patristic evidence for this tradition, and why is it important?"
https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/womens-headcoverings/
I like prefer when women wear head scarves in a Church.
When I go to Russian Orthodox here in England almost all women wear a head scarf, it is Biblically correct.


1 Corinthians 11:3–16
"3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife1 is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5 but every wife2 who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6"
Not every woman is married.

If you start walking up to other guys and saying, "Excuse me, but your wife should...," the next thing that happens may be a knuckle sandwich. The same goes if you try this little lecture on unmarried strangers. If nobody was asking you, maybe you ought to keep it to yourself.
When did Andrew ever admit to lecturing women about wearing or not wearing head coverings in church? ???
Thanks Peter. I was actually simply expressing my opinion on this topic as per Alexandra's original post. All I would say to Biro is that being polite doesn't cost much :)
 

andrewlya

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TheMathematician said:
Pro tip: Biro is female.
I have not got to know her that well to know this.Appologies.
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
Pravoslavac said:
My grandpa used to force un-married women in our family to wear head-coverings everywhere, not only in church. When he died, God rest his soul, women were freed. He died in 1997.
This thread isn't about you.
Correct, it is about headcovering for women.
 

wgw

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hecma925 said:
wgw said:
Modesty has become so rare in our perverse generation that Orthodox women wearing headscarves and dressing modestly make themselves very attractive.  Fabio Leite did a thread which proved this, but had to be shut down because of too many problems with trolling.
LOL, you were busy looking at the pictures.
Only in retrospect.  If I could have intervened to save the thread before it went all pear-shaped, to use a British expression of aerobatic origin, I would have done so.  But by the time I got there it had justifiably been locked, for degenerating into a veritable mound of perversion, much like the recent infamous "sexual drives" thread; it was unsalvagable.  For that matter I fear this thread is running out of steam barring some interesting theological intervention.  But this is an issue of praxis that doesn't really concern me much or interest me, even, so, meh.  :p
 

biro

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I picked a bad weekend to run out of vodka.

:'(
 

PeterTheAleut

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Pravoslavac said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Pravoslavac said:
My grandpa used to force un-married women in our family to wear head-coverings everywhere, not only in church. When he died, God rest his soul, women were freed. He died in 1997.
This thread isn't about you.
Correct, it is about headcovering for women.
So let's keep it focused on that, not on you and your family.
 

andrewlya

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Porter ODoran said:
PeterTheAleut said:
biro said:
andrewlya said:
Alxandra said:
I would love to see this more in our western churches :)
Do young women in your churches wear head coverings?


"What is the Scriptural and Patristic evidence for this tradition, and why is it important?"
https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/womens-headcoverings/
I like prefer when women wear head scarves in a Church.
When I go to Russian Orthodox here in England almost all women wear a head scarf, it is Biblically correct.


1 Corinthians 11:3–16
"3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife1 is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5 but every wife2 who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6"
Not every woman is married.

If you start walking up to other guys and saying, "Excuse me, but your wife should...," the next thing that happens may be a knuckle sandwich. The same goes if you try this little lecture on unmarried strangers. If nobody was asking you, maybe you ought to keep it to yourself.
When did Andrew ever admit to lecturing women about wearing or not wearing head coverings in church? ???
I think the point she's making in a colorful way is that the text says "wife" but Andrew seems to be using it as an imperative for all women.
1 Corinthians 11:6:"For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head." It does not say you have to be married to cover your hair. Anyway, my opinion is when a woman enters a Church she should cover her hair but I am more conservative about this due to my upbringing.
 

biro

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Andrew, your first quote was a few verses before that, and was clearly St. Paul's instructions to someone married. That verse specified wife and husband.

This is one reason not to slice and dice chapters or cherry-pick verses.
 

Arachne

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andrewlya said:
1 Corinthians 11:6:"For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head." It does not say you have to be married to cover your hair. Anyway, my opinion is when a woman enters a Church she should cover her hair but I am more conservative about this due to my upbringing.
The term 'woman' in the text means 'wife' (hence the injunction to 'ask her husband at home'). An unmarried woman is called a 'maiden' or 'virgin', depending on the translation of parthenos.
 

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Roughly all of the women in my Russian Orthodox parish wear head coverings. No one talks about it. They just do it.

No problem.
 

vamrat

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wgw said:
biro said:
andrewlya said:
Alxandra said:
I would love to see this more in our western churches :)
Do young women in your churches wear head coverings?


"What is the Scriptural and Patristic evidence for this tradition, and why is it important?"
https://theorthodoxlife.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/womens-headcoverings/
I like prefer when women wear head scarves in a Church.
When I go to Russian Orthodox here in England almost all women wear a head scarf, it is Biblically correct.


1 Corinthians 11:3–16
"3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife1 is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5 but every wife2 who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6"
Not every woman is married.

If you start walking up to other guys and saying, "Excuse me, but your wife should...," the next thing that happens may be a knuckle sandwich. The same goes if you try this little lecture on unmarried strangers. If nobody was asking you, maybe you ought to keep it to yourself.
I don't believe Andrew or Alexandra have it in mind to lecture the young ladies of the parish on this.  That's the job of the clergy.  And if a priest gets a knuckle sandwich for piously doing his job, that's considered a great honor, for blessed are you when they persecute you for the sake of Our Lord, and other verses.
My priest would agree with Andrew and Alexandra.  Head not covered, you don't commune.  I read the Epistles in Church, but you still ought to read them at home too.  If you have a problem, talk to God and the Apostle Paul, let me know what they say.  If you want to give my priest a knuckle sandwich, good luck.  He's pretty fierce, supposing God doesn't do the dirty work.
 

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Alxandra said:
Do young women in your church wear head coverings?
There are only three, including myself.
 

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Pravoslavac said:
Christina said:
Alxandra said:
Do young women in your church wear head coverings?
There are only three, including myself.
You three are religious fanatics.
They are not fanatics :) If Christ's narrow path and Holy traditions are not the centre of our life then how can we call ourselves Orthodox? It's important to listen carefully to what our wise elders have to say in order to preserve the true faith. Small things may seem unimportant to us in our modern minds, but they are really important and have meaning.
 

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That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
 

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Alxandra said:
The point of head covering is modesty but many young women these days do not like them and think they are only for old ladies,  so I try to post them and show their beauty. Modesty is beautiful :)

And it is recommended that women do wear skirts and dresses. Many elders say a woman wearing a dress, shyness, blushing, and other feminine qualities are a blessing from God and it is not good for women to dress like men or act like men.
Shyness is not femininity. It's a character flaw in some and a crippling disorder in others. The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the LORD will be exalted.- Proverbs 29:25

Jael, Deborah, Miriam, Zipporah, Lydia, Judith, St. Beatrice, and St. Photini did not serve God by being shrinking violets. One could even argue that the Theotokos has a bit of an aggressive streak, taking the initiative at the Wedding of Cana and declaring that God  "has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty."


"The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force," after all.
 

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Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
 

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Volnutt said:
Alxandra said:
The point of head covering is modesty but many young women these days do not like them and think they are only for old ladies,  so I try to post them and show their beauty. Modesty is beautiful :)

And it is recommended that women do wear skirts and dresses. Many elders say a woman wearing a dress, shyness, blushing, and other feminine qualities are a blessing from God and it is not good for women to dress like men or act like men.
Shyness is not femininity. It's a character flaw in some and a crippling disorder in others. The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the LORD will be exalted.- Proverbs 29:25

Jael, Deborah, Miriam, Zipporah, Lydia, Judith, St. Beatrice, and St. Photini did not serve God by being shrinking violets. One could even argue that the Theotokos has a bit of an aggressive streak, taking the initiative at the Wedding of Cana and declaring that God  "has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty."


"The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force," after all.
I think you misunderstand feminine shyness, which is not a character flaw nor synonymous with introversion, which I believe is what you're describing.  Alexandra is talking about shyness around the opposite sex.  I am male and am also shy in this regard.  It's a delicate area.  This shyness is conducive to propriety, as a barrier against giving into our lustful urges; without it there would be much more formication.

I really love conversing with you Volnutt, but as a learner who is not yet Orthodox, I urge you to trust us in matters like these.  It will become clearer when you are a catechumen, and clearer still when you receive illumination.
 

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I'm not opposed to that kind of shyness if that's what she meant.
 

hecma925

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wgw said:
Volnutt said:
Alxandra said:
The point of head covering is modesty but many young women these days do not like them and think they are only for old ladies,  so I try to post them and show their beauty. Modesty is beautiful :)

And it is recommended that women do wear skirts and dresses. Many elders say a woman wearing a dress, shyness, blushing, and other feminine qualities are a blessing from God and it is not good for women to dress like men or act like men.
Shyness is not femininity. It's a character flaw in some and a crippling disorder in others. The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the LORD will be exalted.- Proverbs 29:25

Jael, Deborah, Miriam, Zipporah, Lydia, Judith, St. Beatrice, and St. Photini did not serve God by being shrinking violets. One could even argue that the Theotokos has a bit of an aggressive streak, taking the initiative at the Wedding of Cana and declaring that God  "has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty."


"The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force," after all.
I think you misunderstand feminine shyness, which is not a character flaw nor synonymous with introversion, which I believe is what you're describing.  Alexandra is talking about shyness around the opposite sex.  I am male and am also shy in this regard.  It's a delicate area.  This shyness is conducive to propriety, as a barrier against giving into our lustful urges; without it there would be much more formication.

I really love conversing with you Volnutt, but as a learner who is not yet Orthodox, I urge you to trust us in matters like these.  It will become clearer when you are a catechumen, and clearer still when you receive illumination.
Propriety is not the sole domain of Orthodoxy and also has little to do with shyness.
 

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wgw said:
Volnutt said:
Alxandra said:
The point of head covering is modesty but many young women these days do not like them and think they are only for old ladies,  so I try to post them and show their beauty. Modesty is beautiful :)

And it is recommended that women do wear skirts and dresses. Many elders say a woman wearing a dress, shyness, blushing, and other feminine qualities are a blessing from God and it is not good for women to dress like men or act like men.
Shyness is not femininity. It's a character flaw in some and a crippling disorder in others. The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the LORD will be exalted.- Proverbs 29:25

Jael, Deborah, Miriam, Zipporah, Lydia, Judith, St. Beatrice, and St. Photini did not serve God by being shrinking violets. One could even argue that the Theotokos has a bit of an aggressive streak, taking the initiative at the Wedding of Cana and declaring that God  "has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty."


"The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force," after all.
I think you misunderstand feminine shyness, which is not a character flaw nor synonymous with introversion, which I believe is what you're describing.  Alexandra is talking about shyness around the opposite sex.  I am male and am also shy in this regard.  It's a delicate area.  This shyness is conducive to propriety, as a barrier against giving into our lustful urges; without it there would be much more formication.

I really love conversing with you Volnutt, but as a learner who is not yet Orthodox, I urge you to trust us in matters like these.  It will become clearer when you are a catechumen, and clearer still when you receive illumination.
Yes this is what I meant. Thank you for explaining it better :)
 

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My apologies for misunderstanding you, Alexandra :)
 

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Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
 

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Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
The Orthodox Church has definitely not lost it's purpose, I'm saddened you think that though. Every thought, tradition, and detail matters in our church but most importantly in our souls. So we shouldn't view the mistakes of others as a reason to not be vigilant with our soul.

Women's modesty is important because it reflects an attitude of the heart.
 

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Alxandra said:
Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
The Orthodox Church has definitely not lost it's purpose, I'm saddened you think that though. Every thought, tradition, and detail matters in our church but most importantly in our souls. So we shouldn't view the mistakes of others as a reason to not be vigilant with our soul.
Well Lord Jesus Christ said that His Church wont be defeated even by the gates of hell, so i hope these modernists and ecumenists are not something far more worse than the gates of hell.

If we give up on insisting that we are the only true Church, we will end up as those Melkite Catholic losers. We will become undeveloped Eastern lung of the Church as pope John Paul used to call us.
 

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Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
If that's how you feel, then why aren't you Trudox?
 

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Pravoslavac said:
Alxandra said:
Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
The Orthodox Church has definitely not lost it's purpose, I'm saddened you think that though. Every thought, tradition, and detail matters in our church but most importantly in our souls. So we shouldn't view the mistakes of others as a reason to not be vigilant with our soul.
Well Lord Jesus Christ said that His Church wont be defeated even by the gates of hell, so i hope these modernists and ecumenists are not something far more worse than the gates of hell.

If we give up on insisting that we are the only true Church, we will end up as those Melkite Catholic losers. We will become undeveloped Eastern lung of the Church as pope John Paul used to call us.
Of course it is important we insist it is the only true Church and know there is only one truth. This is why we have to be vigilant with our souls and follow the narrow path no matter how modern times change.

"When there is a respect for small things, there will be an even greater respect towards the bigger things. When there is no respect for small things, then neither will there be for the bigger ones. This is how the Fathers maintained Tradition."
Elder Paisios
 

Porter ODoran

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Pravoslavac said:
Alxandra said:
Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
The Orthodox Church has definitely not lost it's purpose, I'm saddened you think that though. Every thought, tradition, and detail matters in our church but most importantly in our souls. So we shouldn't view the mistakes of others as a reason to not be vigilant with our soul.
Well Lord Jesus Christ said that His Church wont be defeated even by the gates of hell, so i hope these modernists and ecumenists are not something far more worse than the gates of hell.

If we give up on insisting that we are the only true Church, we will end up as those Melkite Catholic losers. We will become undeveloped Eastern lung of the Church as pope John Paul used to call us.
And if we were to refuse to admit the Church and commune with her when she becomes manifest, even in an ancient enemy, then we would be wantonly dividing the Body of Christ and have explaining to do on Judgment Day. In short, the truth is that Christ has one Body and that the Body is Christ's.
 

Pravoslavac

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Porter ODoran said:
Pravoslavac said:
Alxandra said:
Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
The Orthodox Church has definitely not lost it's purpose, I'm saddened you think that though. Every thought, tradition, and detail matters in our church but most importantly in our souls. So we shouldn't view the mistakes of others as a reason to not be vigilant with our soul.
Well Lord Jesus Christ said that His Church wont be defeated even by the gates of hell, so i hope these modernists and ecumenists are not something far more worse than the gates of hell.

If we give up on insisting that we are the only true Church, we will end up as those Melkite Catholic losers. We will become undeveloped Eastern lung of the Church as pope John Paul used to call us.
And if we were to refuse to admit the Church and commune with her when she becomes manifest, even in an ancient enemy, then we would be wantonly dividing the Body of Christ and have explaining to do on Judgment Day. In short, the truth is that Christ has one Body and that the Body is Christ's.
Roman-Catholic Church is teaching heresies. So are you trying to tell me that one part of Christ's body is heretical, ill, false? The unity inside the Orthodox Church is the fullness of Christ's body, and Muslims, Latins, Budhists, Aries, Protestants, infidels and others have nothing to do with the Body of Christ - Church, and them being outside of communion doesn't make Church broken in to two pieces.
 

TheTrisagion

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Porter ODoran said:
kelly said:
I'm just saying, fashion isn't a permanent thing. Christ or the Apostles would not have worn pants.
I hear you saying that you wish more men would follow the Apostolic imperative of kilts.
I would be 100% on board with this. May curses be heaped upon the man that invented suits.
 

Porter ODoran

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Pravoslavac said:
Porter ODoran said:
And if we were to refuse to admit the Church and commune with her when she becomes manifest, even in an ancient enemy, then we would be wantonly dividing the Body of Christ and have explaining to do on Judgment Day. In short, the truth is that Christ has one Body and that the Body is Christ's.
Roman-Catholic Church is teaching heresies. So are you trying to tell me that one part of Christ's body is heretical, ill, false? The unity inside the Orthodox Church is the fullness of Christ's body, and Muslims, Latins, Budhists, Aries, Protestants, infidels and others have nothing to do with the Body of Christ - Church, and them being outside of communion doesn't make Church broken in to two pieces.
We're not in communion with Rome.
 

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wgw said:
Volnutt said:
Alxandra said:
The point of head covering is modesty but many young women these days do not like them and think they are only for old ladies,  so I try to post them and show their beauty. Modesty is beautiful :)

And it is recommended that women do wear skirts and dresses. Many elders say a woman wearing a dress, shyness, blushing, and other feminine qualities are a blessing from God and it is not good for women to dress like men or act like men.
Shyness is not femininity. It's a character flaw in some and a crippling disorder in others. The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the LORD will be exalted.- Proverbs 29:25

Jael, Deborah, Miriam, Zipporah, Lydia, Judith, St. Beatrice, and St. Photini did not serve God by being shrinking violets. One could even argue that the Theotokos has a bit of an aggressive streak, taking the initiative at the Wedding of Cana and declaring that God  "has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty."


"The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force," after all.
I think you misunderstand feminine shyness, which is not a character flaw nor synonymous with introversion, which I believe is what you're describing.  Alexandra is talking about shyness around the opposite sex.  I am male and am also shy in this regard.  It's a delicate area.  This shyness is conducive to propriety, as a barrier against giving into our lustful urges; without it there would be much more formication.

I really love conversing with you Volnutt, but as a learner who is not yet Orthodox, I urge you to trust us in matters like these.  It will become clearer when you are a catechumen, and clearer still when you receive illumination.
Women tightening their headscarves before communing turns you on. Let's hope whatever Volnutt's future holds it isn't as terribly sensible as yours.
 

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Arachne said:
Does this break a forum rule?

In any case, I don't think such a characterization of Alxandra is entirely accurate; she does seem sincere.
 

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Pravoslavac said:
Porter ODoran said:
Pravoslavac said:
Alxandra said:
Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
The Orthodox Church has definitely not lost it's purpose, I'm saddened you think that though. Every thought, tradition, and detail matters in our church but most importantly in our souls. So we shouldn't view the mistakes of others as a reason to not be vigilant with our soul.
Well Lord Jesus Christ said that His Church wont be defeated even by the gates of hell, so i hope these modernists and ecumenists are not something far more worse than the gates of hell.

If we give up on insisting that we are the only true Church, we will end up as those Melkite Catholic losers. We will become undeveloped Eastern lung of the Church as pope John Paul used to call us.
And if we were to refuse to admit the Church and commune with her when she becomes manifest, even in an ancient enemy, then we would be wantonly dividing the Body of Christ and have explaining to do on Judgment Day. In short, the truth is that Christ has one Body and that the Body is Christ's.
Roman-Catholic Church is teaching heresies. So are you trying to tell me that one part of Christ's body is heretical, ill, false? The unity inside the Orthodox Church is the fullness of Christ's body, and Muslims, Latins, Budhists, Aries, Protestants, infidels and others have nothing to do with the Body of Christ - Church, and them being outside of communion doesn't make Church broken in to two pieces.
First of all we didnt say anything here about being in communion with the catholic church. Why you went berzerk with that conviction I dont know. Secondly, I thought this was basic, but we didnt created the schisms. We held firm to the teaching while others did change. And I think you need to realize that addidng pews, the change of calendar nor Bartholomew being in contact with the pope is regarded as heresy. Even St.Nicholas tried to consolate Arius before he later did shut his mouth with a knockout :p
 

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orthonorm said:
wgw said:
Volnutt said:
Alxandra said:
The point of head covering is modesty but many young women these days do not like them and think they are only for old ladies,  so I try to post them and show their beauty. Modesty is beautiful :)

And it is recommended that women do wear skirts and dresses. Many elders say a woman wearing a dress, shyness, blushing, and other feminine qualities are a blessing from God and it is not good for women to dress like men or act like men.
Shyness is not femininity. It's a character flaw in some and a crippling disorder in others. The fear of man brings a snare, But he who trusts in the LORD will be exalted.- Proverbs 29:25

Jael, Deborah, Miriam, Zipporah, Lydia, Judith, St. Beatrice, and St. Photini did not serve God by being shrinking violets. One could even argue that the Theotokos has a bit of an aggressive streak, taking the initiative at the Wedding of Cana and declaring that God  "has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty."


"The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force," after all.
I think you misunderstand feminine shyness, which is not a character flaw nor synonymous with introversion, which I believe is what you're describing.  Alexandra is talking about shyness around the opposite sex.  I am male and am also shy in this regard.  It's a delicate area.  This shyness is conducive to propriety, as a barrier against giving into our lustful urges; without it there would be much more formication.

I really love conversing with you Volnutt, but as a learner who is not yet Orthodox, I urge you to trust us in matters like these.  It will become clearer when you are a catechumen, and clearer still when you receive illumination.
Women tightening their headscarves before communing turns you on. Let's hope whatever Volnutt's future holds it isn't as terribly sensible as yours.
Well to be fair... I think headscarves can be kind of hawt too lol...
 

PeterTheAleut

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orthonorm said:
Arachne said:
Does this break a forum rule?
If you have a question about this, why don't you report it and let the moderators decide?

orthonorm said:
In any case, I don't think such a characterization of Alxandra is entirely accurate; she does seem sincere.
It's not about Alxandra.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
Porter ODoran said:
Pravoslavac said:
Alxandra said:
Pravoslavac said:
Jovan said:
Pravoslavac said:
That is why we added pews, new calendar and created schisms, because we care about holy tradition. XD
I´m guessing you´re ironic in some of your responses. Otherwise I hope you don´t post these kind of answers in the light of our Serbian tradition. Even though the Serbian church has not experienced any internal schism no serbian priest or monk would/could boast before a greek or romanian. All of us are united regarding beautiful traditions, as for example the head covering. But no priest is a fanatic when he asks the woman to put on the veil before the Eucharist. Neither shouldn´t we make conclusions about a priest/church if he doesn´t force the veil upon someone. We ought to follow these traditions out of love, not because the church says we need to.
Irresponsible jurisdictions (Mostly Greek ones and those in USA) added new calendar, pews, accepted un-Orthodox baptism, etc... creating schisms. We started calling pope and Roman-Catholic Church our sister Church. And then we as hypocrites repeat every Sunday the Creed which says that there is only One Church. Orthodox Church has lost purpose long time ago, so talking about traditions is pathetic. And then some smart guys start judging women for not wearing head-covering. If you ask me, first we must fix patriarch Bartholomew, then all other bishops, and then we focus on women's head-covering.
The Orthodox Church has definitely not lost it's purpose, I'm saddened you think that though. Every thought, tradition, and detail matters in our church but most importantly in our souls. So we shouldn't view the mistakes of others as a reason to not be vigilant with our soul.
Well Lord Jesus Christ said that His Church wont be defeated even by the gates of hell, so i hope these modernists and ecumenists are not something far more worse than the gates of hell.

If we give up on insisting that we are the only true Church, we will end up as those Melkite Catholic losers. We will become undeveloped Eastern lung of the Church as pope John Paul used to call us.
And if we were to refuse to admit the Church and commune with her when she becomes manifest, even in an ancient enemy, then we would be wantonly dividing the Body of Christ and have explaining to do on Judgment Day. In short, the truth is that Christ has one Body and that the Body is Christ's.
Roman-Catholic Church is teaching heresies. So are you trying to tell me that one part of Christ's body is heretical, ill, false? The unity inside the Orthodox Church is the fullness of Christ's body, and Muslims, Latins, Budhists, Aries, Protestants, infidels and others have nothing to do with the Body of Christ - Church, and them being outside of communion doesn't make Church broken in to two pieces.
First of all we didnt say anything here about being in communion with the catholic church. Why you went berzerk with that conviction I dont know.
I do know why he "went berzerk", and you stepped right into it. ;) You haven't noticed how much he's been trolling us lately?
 
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