Women lie about their sex lives

Anastasios

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Just as a clarification:

Yes this is an unmoderated forum but if you read the fine print it clearly says that posts violating forum rules will be junked.

We are considering making the mission statement of the free for all forum more clear to avoid such accusations in the future at any rate.

anastasios
 

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I just read the first page of this thread (after looking at what place the STAR WARS thread ranked on the all time most read thread, and I must say that I find this very interesting.

I do think that sexual promescuity is completely out of controll in the world today; in fact, it is because most of our souls (nous) is constantly bombarded by sexuality in a way that it has never been before in the history of mankind.

Premarital sex is something that hurts us and tears apart our nous.

I agreee with Anastasios, chastity is a state of mind. Just look at St. Mary of Egypt.

If a person cannot forgive a woman (especially one that he loves, and is seeking union with God), then he has a problem with pride and unforgiveness. I'm sure that all of us have commited the sin of lust whethere we slept around or not, and our nous was damaged by it.

In Orthodoxy, we are patients in a hospital, and we are recieving healing whatever our sin is. It is our job to work with God in our healing WHICH INCLUDES FORGIVENESS OF OTHERS even if they had fornicated in the past.

With all of that being said, I do pray to God that our world get healed of this massive sickness of fornication that has polluted it. I worry for my two daughters, and pray that they will be chaste. It is a hard thing in this day and age. I am also really disturbed when I see Orthodox who I know are fornicating going up and recieving communion all the time (I know that we aren't supposed to judge, but I'm talking about when it is flat out obvious and there is no sign of quiting in sight).

Mother Mary of Egypt Pray for us!!

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plutonas said:
if the only other option I have is to accept a despoiled creature as my wife, thereby lowering and degrading myself.
'He gave Himself up for her that "He might cleanse and sanctify her..."  So the Church was not pure.  She had blemishes, she was ugly and cheap.  Whatever kind of wife you marry, you will never take a bride like Christ did when He married the Church; you will never marry anyone estranged from you as the Church was from Christ.  Despite all this, He did not abhor or hate her for her extraordinary corruption.  Do you want her corruption described?  Paul says, "For once you were in darkness."  Do you see how black she was?  Nothing is blacker than darkness.  Think of her shamelessness; she passed her day in malice and envy, Paul says.  Look at her impurity; she was foolish and disobedient.  But what am I saying?  She was foolish, her tongue was evil, but even though her wounds were so numerous, He sacrificed Himself for her in her corrupted state, as if she were in the bloom of youth, as if she were dearly beloved, and a wonderful beauty.'
                                                                                                                        -St. John Chrysostom
 
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I had to respond to this thread, not because I could say anything better than what has already been said, but because I feel so much sorrow.

The judgementalism I saw astounded me... and then, on reflection, didn't.  While I have never expressed views as angrily or as crudely as I have seen in this thread, the attitude of my heart was marry-a-virgin-or-perish.  So, I think I understand, a little, the emotional attachment one makes to the idea of marrying a virgin... particularly when you are making sacrifices of your own on a daily basis and losing out in the popularity contest of life.  The world does not respect virgins.

What changed me, and I hope changes you - the posters who share my former views - is a realization of one's own sin.  How dare I examine the mote in another's eye, when I am blinded by my own sins?  How dare I sit in judgement - do I wish judgement to fall on me from on high?  How dare I presume myself to be without lust?  And, yes, Hosea.  Hosea messed with my head, for it brought back to me that Christ loves the Church as God loved Israel.  And God is united to Himself a Bride that was lost in harlotries, and who turns back to them at every opportunity.

Remember, please, that God calls on men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church.  That means dying for her.  That means dying horribly for her.  That means suffering with her.  And that means forgiving her when she whores herself with other men.  For the Church has, like Israel before her, turned again and again to false gods and heresies - the divine equivalent of harlotry.  With that kind of command before us, which few mortal men could ever live up to (and which not even the Church expects of us), I kind of feel that one or two past pre-marital indiscretions are fairly minor.  Don't you?

And lastly, I had given up on finding a virgin.  I knew of none.  And now I have met a lovely young lady who is immeasurably good for me, of whom I am unworthy.  And you know what?  She's a virgin.  With God all things are possible.  Don't let go of that.  Don't let despair swallow you as it had swallowed me.

In Christ, Vasya.
 

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Well, I am a virgin, but I do not have any expectation as to whether I will marry a virgin or non-virgin.  As Prodromos indicated, I don't know what will be required for my salvation where a spouse is concerned.  I also do not feel it is Christian to condemn someone for past mistakes.  That is not Christ-like at all.

There are many impure virgins, just as there are many pure non-virgins.  It's about the condition of the heart and soul, not an anatomical barrier.  To me, love and devotion to the Church, as well as personal character, is much more important than what sin they may have committed in years past.  I would be horrified if someone rejected me for a past sin, so I won't do it to someone else.
 
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Seriously? Is there like absolutely no pressure whatsover on women FROM the male dominated society? Are men not famous for lying and saying they deeply love a women, when in fact they are just trying to get sex? Some of you are being entirely too hard on one component in this scenario, when there are two components to call out.

And more importantly, the whole issue of fixation on sexuality here does make one wonder how truly pure the man is. Scripture is clear on what constitutes sexual sin, and its not just the physical act of sex before marriage. There is softcore porn on regular television, in ads at the grocery checkout, on the internet, billboards, and in stores/malls. I would have a really difficult time believing a couple of you are nearly as "pure as the driven snow" as you think you are. In God's eyes a man that has lusted after a woman with his eyes and his heart and mind is just as defiled. The standard is the same, and the bar is just as high for men-who probably have it somewhat harder in that they are made to be visually stimulated- in a society that provides a smorgasbord of stimulation.  I spent years in private Christian school and I can't tell you the amount of sexual pressure that comes from supposedly 'christian' men-including our Bible professors!!

I don't suggest that sexual purity is NOT important, I am suggesting that there is far more to it than some of your limited expectations of getting to be the only 'deflowerer' of a woman. If you have visually, or mentally 'deflowered' anyone EVER (even imaginary women), you are just as guilty. What a man thinks on, that is his heart.

I can lament the lack of Orthodox singles a bit, I have kids heading straight into that mess. We have little options as Orthodox in the South for our children, so spread out are we. But anyone as judgmental as a few of you guys would not be competent mates for my beautiful intelligent daughters anyway. Sin is sin in God's eyes, and the measure with which you would judge my daughter (even as virgins) would give me pause. A haughty man, a judgmental arrogant man? Marriage is freakishly hard enough, I honestly would have a hard time condoning it if this is the kind of Orthodox men left!
 

Fr. George

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^ You may want to word parts of your argument (like "some of you are being entirely too hard") in the past tense, since all but 4 posts (now 6) are from 2003 and, thus, firmly in the past.  There are a number of people involved in this discussion who no longer post here, btw.

Otherwise, carry on.  I don't want to stifle your response to the thread just because it's old - we're a discussion forum, for Pete's sake.
 

Marc1152

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Jenny said:
sinjinsmythe said:
How can someone who has not had premarital sex get married and build intimacy with a spouse who has slept around?  
When my husband I married 5 years ago, neither one of us were virgins.  I know that at the time I married I wished that I had remained a virgin.  However, the fact that we were not virgins has not kept us from building a wonderful, intimate relationship.  Neither one of us ever think about the other people we were with.  Now, it truly seems like I was never with anyone else.  

Let me ask you:  say you married and were then widowed (maybe at a relatively young age).  You found someone else who was also widowed.  Could you not marry and build an intimate relationship with that new spouse simply because they had slept with someone else?  

I realize there is a difference between a girl who has been with one or two other guys and a girl who's been with the whole football team.  Most of my friends, though not virigns, had not been with a lot of guys; I don't think it would be too hard to find a girl like that.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with trying to find someone who is a virgin; in fact, I think it's a good thing that you want to find someone who hasn't slept around.  But I just wanted to say that I don't think it's impossible to build an intimate relationship with someone who is not a virgin.
ummmm.. It's a bit sexist to judge women on the details of their past sexual experiences as if they are "spoiled goods". .  How's about finding someone who is generous , a pious Christian and potential good mother or already a good mother? This kind of judgementalism makes my teeth itch. Your milage may vary
 

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Ironically, I've heard more of the opposite lately-men only want women with "experience".
 

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Rosehip said:
Ironically, I've heard more of the opposite lately-men only want women with "experience".
LOL.

There's a running gag that I've come up with (though, I think a lot of people just come up with this on their own).

Why exactly would Muslims want a mess of virgins?  Why wouldn't they want a mess of female ne'er-do-wells who actually know what they're doing?

:D

I'm kind of the same way (in moderation), but I suppose the reverse could be fun.  Learning together and all that.

 

Marc1152

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Gabriel said:
Rosehip said:
Ironically, I've heard more of the opposite lately-men only want women with "experience".
LOL.

There's a running gag that I've come up with (though, I think a lot of people just come up with this on their own).

Why exactly would Muslims want a mess of virgins?  Why wouldn't they want a mess of female ne'er-do-wells who actually know what they're doing?

:D

I'm kind of the same way (in moderation), but I suppose the reverse could be fun.  Learning together and all that.
I am the only man in a office with 10 women.. I have confirmed that polygamy is not a good option.
 

EofK

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Marc1152 said:
Gabriel said:
Rosehip said:
Ironically, I've heard more of the opposite lately-men only want women with "experience".
LOL.

There's a running gag that I've come up with (though, I think a lot of people just come up with this on their own).

Why exactly would Muslims want a mess of virgins?  Why wouldn't they want a mess of female ne'er-do-wells who actually know what they're doing?

:D

I'm kind of the same way (in moderation), but I suppose the reverse could be fun.  Learning together and all that.
I am the only man in a office with 10 women.. I have confirmed that polygamy is not a good option.
Smart man.  :laugh:
 

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This thread would be really sad for a couple of my friends to read...and I'm glad they aren't.  Plutonas' (sp) attitude would deem rape victims as unmarriagable.
 

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ChristusDominus said:
Rosehip said:
Ironically, I've heard more of the opposite lately-men only want women with "experience".
Is it because they want an even match?  ::)
I'm not sure. I think it's because they're selfish. I've decided it's impossible to please men. They always hold something against you. Men, on the other hand, have it much easier-they don't have nearly the difficulties women face in finding a mate.
 

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Rosehip said:
I'm not sure. I think it's because they're selfish. I've decided it's impossible to please men. They always hold something against you. Men, on the other hand, have it much easier-they don't have nearly the difficulties women face in finding a mate.
Really...

Enlighten us.
 

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Yes. If you diligently keep yourself pure out of love and devotion to your future husband, then you discover men disdain you for this. If you have fallen into sin and been in previous relationships, then the men despise you because you're not a virgin. On the other hand, men seem to be able to get away with immoral behaviour, and somehow, that's okay. Plus, they get to ask women out. Women do not have that option and must wait until someone asks them. I've known all sorts of very unattractive men who manage to find mates but women who far surpass them in the looks department are never chosen.
 

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Rosehip said:
Yes. If you diligently keep yourself pure out of love and devotion to your future husband, then you discover men disdain you for this. If you have fallen into sin and been in previous relationships, then the men despise you because you're not a virgin. On the other hand, men seem to be able to get away with immoral behaviour, and somehow, that's okay. Plus, they get to ask women out. Women do not have that option and must wait until someone asks them. I've known all sorts of very unattractive men who manage to find mates but women who far surpass them in the looks department are never chosen.
I find the bolded statement quite telling, honestly.  Those "unattractive men" are usually people for whom beauty is in the eye of the beholder and who are actually looking for a person rather than at a person.

I say this as one of those "unattractive men" who most conventionally attractive women don't even notice exist let alone would consider dating.  I say this as a friend of scores of "unattractive men" who enjoy the "dorky" pursuits of life who were always told they'd be alone for the rest of their lives and managed through thick and thin to look find a mate.  I say this as the husband of a beautiful woman who had a horrible track record in dating men for so long that her mother had in it for me from the get-go because she was simply accustomed to her daughter dating horrible men. 

Perhaps you need to move or look elsewhere.  There's bound to be a gaming convention near you where you're going to find someone who will adore the very ground you walk on and who wouldn't mind in the slightest if you asked them out because they lack the confidence to do it themselves.
 

Rosehip

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I didn't intend to slam "unattractive men". What I meant to say was that even "unattractive" men think it their right to a "beautiful" woman. However, "unattractive" women aren't able to enjoy the same privileges, and are usually ignored by men. Women are constantly judged by so many things, whereas men can do as they please and think it their right-no matter what they look like to "rate" women, to marry a "beautiful" woman, to disdain a woman for either being a virgin or promiscuous or too ugly. Believe me, I've been around a lot of men, and I know how they act.
 

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It seems to me that we need to be very careful about making sweeping generalizations. Just a suggestion. It's unwise to label men and women as being this or that. If one is going to judge at all, it seems more prudent to judge the individual rather than paint broad stripes over the group. Just my two cents.    ::)
 
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