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Would you attend an RC university over a secular one?

trevor72694

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I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
 

mike

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What is a "Christian education" vs "secular education"? And what is supposedly better or worse?
 

rakovsky

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What you would probably want to do is see if either has an OCF at the college, or if either one has an Orthodox parish nearby you like and could attend.

Typically many nonstate colleges historically had some kind of religious affiliation. But in practice all it meant was that the college would require you to take some religion classes or go to chapel. A couple colleges though like Holy Cross do have a strong religious identity.

If you want to get involved in Roman Catholicism, then of course a Catholic college would be a good choice for you. But unless you plan on taking advantage of Roman Catholic opportunities, like accessibility of RC priests and campus RC activities, I think you should better follow what I put in bold above if your interest is mainly Orthodoxy.

But there is an organization called Catholic Charities and there are good Catholic services. If you are thinking about working for the Catholic church or its charities, a Catholic college could be good for you.
 

rakovsky

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Svartzorn said:
It's probably easier to undo the damage done by catholics than the damage done by seculars.
You can't say that, because it depends what the "damage" is, Svartzorn.
I can go into long arguments about that if you are interested.
 

rakovsky

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To answer the OP at a personal level, it would not be a major consideration for me whether it's Catholic or not.
I would go for where I could get the best education or what had the most activities for entertainment.

If I were very Roman Catholic, it would make a difference to me to pay the extra cash.
 

MalpanaGiwargis

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Quite frankly, a great many Catholic universities are indistinguishable from secular schools. They might have a theology faculty, but they are often populated with extremely liberal faculty; the other departments are what you'd find elsewhere. I would aim for the best cost/education ratio myself irrespective of the school's religious tradition or lack of one.
 

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rakovsky said:
Svartzorn said:
It's probably easier to undo the damage done by catholics than the damage done by seculars.
You can't say that, because it depends what the "damage" is, Svartzorn.
I can go into long arguments about that if you are interested.
3 examples would suffice.
 

scamandrius

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Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
Would the RC school have more or less of a problem with your habitual use of marijuana than the secular school?  You know:  priorities.  ;D
 

Mor Ephrem

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scamandrius said:
Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
Would the RC school have more or less of a problem with your habitual use of marijuana than the secular school?  You know:  priorities.  ;D
At least neither school requires students to hear you chant. 
 

rakovsky

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Svartzorn said:
3 examples would suffice.
1. If you are going to a secular college, you are not going to necessarily be persuaded to join a certain religion. If you are at a Catholic college, you can be persuaded to join Catholicism.

2. I read Fr John P Meier's book a Marginal Jew because I had some doubts about miraculous parts of the gospels. In the book, Fr Meier goes through numerous miracles and explains why based on historicity and academic investigation, it looks like they didn't happen. Naturally, a person reading this will be more trusting of the priest's conclusions to this effect because he is a priest and such reading will be felt as "safe" by the Christian reader. A result of the book was some deepening of my doubts. Was this damaging?

3. Some people have been in Catholic institutions and being in such an environment has pushed them away from Catholicism and even Christianity. This is why I said that it depends on what the damage is. If the damage is that the person was pushed away by being in the institution, then from a Christian POV, it could be "worse" then being in a secular institution where certain views were not necessarily being pushed onto the student that could have this countereffect.
 

NicholasMyra

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Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
It's college, not church. I mean, should you look for a Christian grocery store? Bus stop? Christian dermatologist? Apple stand? Christian UPS?
 

trevor72694

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scamandrius said:
Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
Would the RC school have more or less of a problem with your habitual use of marijuana than the secular school?  You know:  priorities.  ;D
As a graduate student, I would live off campus.  ;)  Plus, the school can leave me alone to do what I please because #America.

In all seriousness, I will not be using cannabis products after I finish my BSW, and most jobs in my field drug test, so it would simply not make sense to keep up the habit.
 

Agabus

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Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
scamandrius said:
Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
Would the RC school have more or less of a problem with your habitual use of marijuana than the secular school?  You know:  priorities.  ;D
As a graduate student, I would live off campus.  ;)  Plus, the school can leave me alone to do what I please because #America.
I can see you've never attended a religious institution as a student.
 

JamesRottnek

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Agabus said:
Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
scamandrius said:
Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
Would the RC school have more or less of a problem with your habitual use of marijuana than the secular school?  You know:  priorities.  ;D
As a graduate student, I would live off campus.  ;)  Plus, the school can leave me alone to do what I please because #America.
I can see you've never attended a religious institution as a student.
Yeah, but this is a Godless papist religious institution.
 

Opus118

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If money is no object, I would suggest Fordham U.:
http://www.fordham.edu/info/20357/master_of_social_work
https://www.fordham.edu/info/23001/orthodox_christian_studies_center
 

Diego

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I shall reiterate what has been said about liberal "Catholic" colleges. I attended such a one for college and grad school. While the non-religion depts that I dealt with were good, Religion itself ( and from what I heard Sociology as well) were full of liberals. Basically, they hated Whites, males, straights, traditionalists, etc. You can imagine I just made their day! Bunch of LWNJ if you ask me, and borderline Communists. But, that does NOT speak for ALL Catholic colleges. There are some very good ones. Just be careful.
 

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Diego said:
I shall reiterate what has been said about liberal "Catholic" colleges. I attended such a one for college and grad school. While the non-religion depts that I dealt with were good, Religion itself ( and from what I heard Sociology as well) were full of liberals. Basically, they hated Whites, males, straights, traditionalists, etc. You can imagine I just made their day! Bunch of LWNJ if you ask me, and borderline Communists. But, that does NOT speak for ALL Catholic colleges. There are some very good ones. Just be careful.
Is this "Diego" speaking who had a vision of Jesus, or is this the person himself speaking about real life?
 

Diego

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RAKOVSKY, what kind of question is that? It is certainly your right to disbelieve my Vision. But my telling you of my university & graduate school experience is a different matter.
 

rakovsky

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Diego said:
RAKOVSKY, what kind of question is that? It is certainly your right to disbelieve my Vision. But my telling you of my university & graduate school experience is a different matter.
Because I saw how you argued against the EO church on another part of the forum, so now it opens up to question how reliable your depictions of RC colleges' politics and other views are.
 

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Well, if you consider wanting to marry two men to each other, ordain gays and females to the priesthood, and other innovations of that nature within the bounds of acceptable Catholic or Orthodox conduct, then I suppose I am out there. Otherwise... As far as my arguments with Orthodoxy (and Romanism, for that matter), this is not the time nor the place for that discussion. But, simply put, they are classic Lutheran issues of the Monergist variety v. the more synergist Orthodox view. And mind you that the arguments are models for me. But its another  issue.
 

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Here's a link to help you explore some Canadian university offerings.

There are pros and cons to both RC and secular choices that you are currently considering. You might want to explore the job placement and satisfaction of graduates in each program. The institutions will of course present the best spin as possible on that subject, but keep at it. If possible, you might want to interview professionals in your area who have attended these institutions (or who didn't and might want to explain why).
 

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MalpanaGiwargis said:
Quite frankly, a great many Catholic universities are indistinguishable from secular schools. They might have a theology faculty, but they are often populated with extremely liberal faculty; the other departments are what you'd find elsewhere. I would aim for the best cost/education ratio myself irrespective of the school's religious tradition or lack of one.
Based on my experience, I strongly agree with this statement. While I understand your asking, Trevor, I just don't think you'll see the benefits of a so-called Catholic institution. That is, unless the MSW program is somehow connected closely with a Catholic institution.

Good to see you back though!
 

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I've been to both.

Go see the campus and get an idea of what day to day life is like. If you can see yourself spending a lot of time there, go for it.

 

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Universities teach scientific methods (or at leadt are supposed to) so it doesn't really matter. You go to a university, not to a seminary. Pick the one that is the best you can afford.
 

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Many of the Holy Godbearing Fathers attended the best schools of their day, and the best education was pagan education.  Look how they turned out.

We can't really say that about current day American public schools.

State colleges can vary.

Private colleges are expensive but you pay for the prestige of attending there--it looks good on the resume.

I would choose the one that has the best program for your particular degree, followed by what your budget will bear.  If you are borrowing money to attend, you do have to pay that back.

Those payments can be burdensome if you graduate and don't get a good job right away.
 

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I think its either Pro-Choice or Pro-Life . . . IMO Abortion is pretty evil. I would attend University that sponsored travel trips to other continents.
 

WPM

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Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
Not everything is 'Christian' . . .
 

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I haven't been to a Catholic school. I am, however, a graduate of a SACS accredited denominationally affiliated college.

Going to a religious school you can make of it what you will. Many of my classmates came in irreligious and left that way. Others came in religious and left irreligious, and yet others came in irreligious and left religious. Almost none of those changes had to do with the nine hours everyone was required to take in the religion department. People's lives were more shaped by who they chose to associate with (and what they read) outside classes.

The saddest, however, were those who attended thinking that the school was going to be either an extended Church or a protective bubble, or that attending a religious school (which by student self-reporting was ranked the No. 6 most conservative in the country) would cure their doubts about God, their sexuality, whatever. Wherever you go, there you are.

All of that said, I suppose the best answer is for you to evaluate the particular work you want to do. If it's something that can be better formed by studying within the Catholic tradition, go ahead; if you don't need that specific course of formation, save yourself the thousands of dollars extra it will cost you.

FWIW, a number of accredited seminaries of any flavor of Christian traditions offer MSW degrees.
 

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WPM said:
I think its either Pro-Choice or Pro-Life . . . IMO Abortion is pretty evil. I would attend University that sponsored travel trips to other continents.
The thread isn't about abortion.
 

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Diego said:
Well, if you consider wanting to marry two men to each other, ordain gays and females to the priesthood, and other innovations of that nature within the bounds of acceptable Catholic or Orthodox conduct, then I suppose I am out there. Otherwise... As far as my arguments with Orthodoxy (and Romanism, for that matter), this is not the time nor the place for that discussion. But, simply put, they are classic Lutheran issues of the Monergist variety v. the more synergist Orthodox view. And mind you that the arguments are models for me. But its another  issue.
So, what school should he go to?
 

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Tikhon.of.Colorado said:
I'm interested to know if you would choose to attend a secular school over a Roman Catholic school, in a scenario where these are the only options.  As Orthodox Christians, we do not have many schools in this country, so it comes down to the choice between a Christian education and a secular one.  What are your thoughts? 

The closest MSW program to me is Roman Catholic and the program is perfect for me (family-centered practice).  I'm just trying to decide if I'm more comfortable at a secular school, as there is another program 30 mins. away from that one, but that costs less tuition-wise.
I attended Catholic School most of my life including  11/2 semesters of college.  If given the opportunity, I would send my child to one for grade school / high school, and have no opinion whatsoever about college.  would hardly call this a "must" though.  Catholic schools have a good reputation in America due to the quality of education, positive environments, with  flourishes of Christian twists here and there mixed in where a public school may throw in a secular or civic twist...that's it.

The main question with something like this is, what is your goal and ow does the university match up to those goals?  Assessing Notre Dame would be in most situations, the same as assessing Northwestern or even that devil university that exists in that state north of Ohio.  How important is it for you to have a Catholic environment as an educational backdrop?  To me, all things being equal, it's would be nice but certainly not necessary, especially for college.  A good educational environment is by far what is the most important thing, and you wont notice much difference between universities.
 
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