Yet Another Gay Marriage Thread

Homosexuality comes up frequenbtly on Orthodox forums because..

  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Since drunkeness, adultery, theft and dishonesty have been eradicated it's the only sin left to figh

    Votes: 10 13.9%
  • Apparently most Orthodox Christians have lots of gay family, friends and associates

    Votes: 7 9.7%
  • Orthodox forums attract a lot of self torturing closet cases and men with doubts about thier own mas

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 15 20.8%

  • Total voters
    72
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Theoprovlitos

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My time expired and I was logged out and lost everything I wrote. So I am trying again

Unfortunatelly this neighnareis aboslutely TRUE.

The official programm of the conference is on line by the group Yhteys and I have already published the link.

Answering your questions now

1. In the original text the name of the Bishop was removed today in PANIC after I informed about the conference the Constantinople, Moscow, Bulgarian and other Patriarchates and Churches. However other Orthodox participants in the program play an important role in the Finnish Church. But you can still find the name of the same bishop in the Freemason page on the other post.


2. You cannot forbid anyone from participating in Vespers or in Akathyst but you also do not ORGANIZE in a non-orthodox church Vespers and Akathyst especially for GAYS unless the church introduces services fro different kinds of groups according to sex, social background, etc. Whoever is interested can visit the local Orthodox CHurch. There is no point organizein an Orthodox  service for the NON Orthodox especially focused on their sexual disorientation.


3. Maybe you didn't undersatnd wuite well the the person who introduces Gay Orthdox Pirests to live freely together with their lovers IS an Orthodox priest and the program has been approved by the bishop and the Archbishop of course.

4. The organizer of the conference is an Orthodox Priest who also happens to be the General Secretary of the Ecumenist Counsel of Finland. The gorganization where he also belongs is Yhteys and the president is a woman pastoress who recently performed the first ecclsiastical lesbian wedding in the Lutheran Church and she also put pressure so that the transexual priest would remain in hs parish as a priestess.

The Orthodox Priests who belong in this group, FULLY agree on this, FULLY suport them, they FULLY cooperate with them and the pray together in several services except of the divine Liturgy (for the time being)

Lst but not least they reject the Epistles and the Old Testament becasue they say negative things about homosexuality and their heretical moto is "If Jesus said nothing about it, then it is ALLOWED"

What else do you need?

You should know that this story goes back since 13 years ago when in the Orthodox Magazine Aamun Koitto they started publishing articles promoting homosexuality even mentioning that Jesus Christ had a special relationshiop with St John the Theologian!

In the blog you can see the covers of at least to issues dedicated tohomosexuality.

You should also know that Mt AThos, and some Church leaders are aware of the problem since quite some time. But becasue the Patriarchate does not take any measures those obsessed people guide the Finnish Church from bad to worse...
 

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Theoprovlitos said:
My time expired and I was logged out and lost everything I wrote. So I am trying again

Unfortunatelly this neighnareis aboslutely TRUE.
Unfortunately, since you have not yet posted any links to sources outside of your own blog, it appears to be you and no one else saying this.

Theoprovlitos said:
The official programm of the conference is on line by the group Yhteys and I have already published the link.
Where?  I don't see the link.

Theoprovlitos said:
Answering your questions now

1. In the original text the name of the Bishop was removed today in PANIC after I informed about the conference the Constantinople, Moscow, Bulgarian and other Patriarchates and Churches. However other Orthodox participants in the program play an important role in the Finnish Church. But you can still find the name of the same bishop in the Freemason page on the other post.


2. You cannot forbid anyone from participating in Vespers or in Akathyst but you also do not ORGANIZE in a non-orthodox church Vespers and Akathyst especially for GAYS unless the church introduces services fro different kinds of groups according to sex, social background, etc. Whoever is interested can visit the local Orthodox CHurch. There is no point organizein an Orthodox  service for the NON Orthodox especially focused on their sexual disorientation.


3. Maybe you didn't undersatnd wuite well the the person who introduces Gay Orthdox Pirests to live freely together with their lovers IS an Orthodox priest and the program has been approved by the bishop and the Archbishop of course.

4. The organizer of the conference is an Orthodox Priest who also happens to be the General Secretary of the Ecumenist Counsel of Finland. The gorganization where he also belongs is Yhteys and the president is a woman pastoress who recently performed the first ecclsiastical lesbian wedding in the Lutheran Church and she also put pressure so that the transexual priest would remain in hs parish as a priestess.

The Orthodox Priests who belong in this group, FULLY agree on this, FULLY suport them, they FULLY cooperate with them and the pray together in several services except of the divine Liturgy (for the time being)

Lst but not least they reject the Epistles and the Old Testament becasue they say negative things about homosexuality and their heretical moto is "If Jesus said nothing about it, then it is ALLOWED"

What else do you need?

You should know that this story goes back since 13 years ago when in the Orthodox Magazine Aamun Koitto they started publishing articles promoting homosexuality even mentioning that Jesus Christ had a special relationshiop with St John the Theologian!

In the blog you can see the covers of at least to issues dedicated tohomosexuality.

You should also know that Mt AThos, and some Church leaders are aware of the problem since quite some time. But becasue the Patriarchate does not take any measures those obsessed people guide the Finnish Church from bad to worse...
Sorry.  You've answered not one of the questions I asked, since the only question I asked is why the only sources you've linked so far are sources you yourself have constructed.



Okay, I sit corrected. :-[  You have provided a couple of links to something other than your own blog.  However, one of the links is to someone else's blog and, if the story detailed therein is true, still has no bearing on the OP if you can't prove from outside sources that the sex-changing Lutheran priest actually had the support of the Finnish Orthodox Church.  The other link redirects me to a news source that I can't read, since it's all in a language I don't understand (Finnish?).
 

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Theoprovlitos said:
1. In the original text the name of the Bishop was removed today in PANIC after I informed about the conference the Constantinople, Moscow, Bulgarian and other Patriarchates and Churches. However other Orthodox participants in the program play an important role in the Finnish Church. But you can still find the name of the same bishop in the Freemason page on the other post.
It's only your word. And what have freemasons in common with Gay Conference? And neither of the Churches has reacted? There aren't any open letters. The Metropolitan thelepatically realised you informed them and modified the page?

Theoprovlitos said:
2. You cannot forbid anyone from participating in Vespers or in Akathyst but you also do not ORGANIZE in a non-orthodox church Vespers and Akathyst especially for GAYS unless the church introduces services fro different kinds of groups according to sex, social background, etc. Whoever is interested can visit the local Orthodox CHurch. There is no point organizein an Orthodox  service for the NON Orthodox especially focused on their sexual disorientation.
Where is it stated that they won't took place in a normal Church?


Maybe you didn't understand wuite well the the person who introduces Gay Orthdox Pirests to live freely together with their lovers IS an Orthodox priest and the program has been approved by the bishop and the Archbishop of course.
It will be an introduction to the discussion (which will contain an Orthodox statement on the topic I suppose), NOT the introduction of gay Orthodox Priests.

4. The organizer of the conference is an Orthodox Priest who also happens to be the General Secretary of the Ecumenist Counsel of Finland. The gorganization where he also belongs is Yhteys and the president is a woman pastoress who recently performed the first ecclsiastical lesbian wedding in the Lutheran Church and she also put pressure so that the transexual priest would remain in hs parish as a priestess.
Fr. Heikki didn't perform a lesbian wedding. Where is the source that he organises the event? BTW in Poland an Orthodox Hierarchs also presides national ecumenical organisation.

The Orthodox Priests who belong in this group, FULLY agree on this, FULLY suport them, they FULLY cooperate with them and the pray together in several services except of the divine Liturgy (for the time being)
Agree and support what? And how do you know that he fully does?

Lst but not least they reject the Epistles and the Old Testament becasue they say negative things about homosexuality and their heretical moto is "If Jesus said nothing about it, then it is ALLOWED"
Prove it.


You seem (or pretend) to have an outstanding knowledge of issues in Finnish Church as you are Greek. Where do you take it from?


PeterTheAleut said:
Where?  I don't see the link.
Top of the OP. I am not sure whether it was there from the beginning or was added later or had been removed and placed again.
 

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mike said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Where?  I don't see the link.
Top of the OP. I am not sure whether it was there from the beginning or was added later.
Yes, I recall that I saw the link and even commented on the fact that it provides no evidence whatsoever that the "Orthodox" group helping sponsor this conference is indeed a canonically Orthodox church and not a vagante sect.

I'm afraid I'm starting to lose credibility with my contradiction of facts I myself acknowledged earlier.  Must be due to the fact that I'm almost 40. :-[
 

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Listen guys

I do not like "professional controvercy" and I don't like people questioning my credibility for the sake of controversy.

I havev provided you with liks which if you made a research you would have EASILY found out that the bishop ios involved. I cannot waste my time with people who call me a fraud.

Anyhow my point was not to proof myself a cdredulous person but to make this public so that peorple are aware of this worldwide and that those who are percecuted in Finland becasue they protest will get some help.

I guess aritcles and links in Finnish or Greek won't do any help to you or would they?

Here is the list of Orthodox Priests who are active memebrs of Yhteys WITH the blessing of the local bishop becasue I suppose it is obvious that Orthodox priests cannot participate actively and in public in such organizations without the bishops permission

http://www.yhteys.org/ortodoksit_frame.html

Here is the link of the Finnish Ecumenist counsil where the secretary is an Orthodox priest, same as in Yhteys homosexual group

http://www.ekumenia.fi/yhteystiedot_kontakt/

And here is the Orthodox Gay Fellowship where the theological secretary of the Archbishop himslef, supports openly gay activists since 2007, whao wrote in their "orthodox" magazine the Christ was gay and that Church should blesses homosexaual weddings.

I am too tired to search for more. If you don't believe me that is YOUR problem. I do not live in Finland.

http://sateenkaariseura.wordpress.com/articles-from-other-sites/double-life/
 

PeterTheAleut

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Theoprovlitos said:
Listen guys

I do not like "professional controvercy" and I don't like people questioning my credibility for the sake of controversy.
Actually, Theoprovlitos, this is not a matter of people questioning your credibility for the sake of controversy.  This is a matter of you posting vile accusations against a canonical hierarch of the Body of Christ, accusations that can be deemed libel if you cannot provide sufficient proof of their veracity.  You cannot rest on a credibility you haven't earned yet and seem hellbent on destroying with your alarmist, possibly slanderous claims.

Theoprovlitos said:
I havev provided you with liks which if you made a research you would have EASILY found out that the bishop ios involved. I cannot waste my time with people who call me a fraud.
Then take the time to prove that you are NOT a fraud.  You are the one arguing a case against a bishop of the Finnish Orthodox Church.  According to the rules of courtroom debate--maybe one of our attorneys can correct me where I err--the burden of proof is on you to prove your case against the bishop and to do whatever research and translation is necessary to accomplish this end.  We, the jury, bear no responsibility to conduct any research outside of a mere review of the evidence you have provided.  So don't ask us to do what you refuse (i.e., are too lazy?) to waste your time doing.

Theoprovlitos said:
Anyhow my point was not to proof myself a cdredulous person but to make this public so that peorple are aware of this worldwide and that those who are percecuted in Finland becasue they protest will get some help.

I guess aritcles and links in Finnish or Greek won't do any help to you or would they?

Here is the list of Orthodox Priests who are active memebrs of Yhteys WITH the blessing of the local bishop becasue I suppose it is obvious that Orthodox priests cannot participate actively and in public in such organizations without the bishops permission

http://www.yhteys.org/ortodoksit_frame.html

Here is the link of the Finnish Ecumenist counsil where the secretary is an Orthodox priest, same as in Yhteys homosexual group

http://www.ekumenia.fi/yhteystiedot_kontakt/

And here is the Orthodox Gay Fellowship where the theological secretary of the Archbishop himslef, supports openly gay activists since 2007, whao wrote in their "orthodox" magazine the Christ was gay and that Church should blesses homosexaual weddings.

I am too tired to search for more. If you don't believe me that is YOUR problem. I do not live in Finland.

http://sateenkaariseura.wordpress.com/articles-from-other-sites/double-life/
Still awaiting a proper Finnish translation of these web pages from those of our posters who do live in Finland...
 

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Thank God

Because you guys remind my of those people when a woman goes to report a rape to the police and the policement start making hints that she was propably asking for it.

Anyway I still belive that writing here is a loss of time but I found more links from previous activities which are actually published by the gay mafia. But if one is TRULY orthodox by reading between the line she gets the message.

http://www.rainbowchristians.com/articles/entry/Homosexuality-issue-Complicating-Relationships-Between-the-Orthodox-in-Russia-and-Finland


HOORAY

Now some big mouth will shut

Go to Google
Search  ambrosius finland gay
Go to result no 4 and THERE IT IS

EUROPEAN FORUM OF LESBIAN & GAY CHRISTIAN GROUPS 2009Orthodox bishop Ambrosius; Shaking hands with each other, Map of Europe ... General secterary, Father Heikki Huttunen, Ecumenical Counsel of Finland, ...
www.yhteys.org/ef2009b.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

Because the name was removed TODAY google hasn't updated the link and so the ORTHODOX BISHOP's AMBROSIUS's name is FIRST IN LINE and the subject of his speach: Shaking hands with each other (and maybe more than hands).

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=ambrosius+finland+gay&btnG=Search&meta=

Now the fact that his name was removed makes him even responsible and guilty for what is going on.

Of course those who were critisizing me have nothing to say as well as about the fact that the General Secretary of Ecumenist Counsil is an Orthodox priest

 

PeterTheAleut

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Theoprovlitos said:
Thank God

Because you guys remind my of those people when a woman goes to report a rape to the police and the policement start making hints that she was propably asking for it.
Sorry.  Don't see the connection here.

Theoprovlitos said:
Anyway I still belive that writing here is a loss of time but I found more links from previous activities which are actually published by the gay mafia. But if one is TRULY orthodox by reading between the line she gets the message.

http://www.rainbowchristians.com/articles/entry/Homosexuality-issue-Complicating-Relationships-Between-the-Orthodox-in-Russia-and-Finland
Thank you.  Evidence to suggest that maybe there is something to your claim that maybe the Finnish Orthodox Church is more supportive of gays than you like, whatever all that means. :-\  But also note that the same article states that many even in the Finnish Orthodox Church are uncomfortable with this "openness".  I'm also not convinced that this circumstantial evidence, if that's what it can be called, can be used as proof of your specific claim that the Orthodox bishop of Finland helped organize an ecumenist gay conference for later this month.

Theoprovlitos said:
HOORAY

Now some big mouth will shut

Go to Google
Search  ambrosius finland gay
Go to result no 4 and THERE IT IS

EUROPEAN FORUM OF LESBIAN & GAY CHRISTIAN GROUPS 2009Orthodox bishop Ambrosius; Shaking hands with each other, Map of Europe ... General secterary, Father Heikki Huttunen, Ecumenical Counsel of Finland, ...
www.yhteys.org/ef2009b.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

Because the name was removed TODAY google hasn't updated the link and so the ORTHODOX BISHOP's AMBROSIUS's name is FIRST IN LINE and the subject of his speach: Shaking hands with each other (and maybe more than hands).

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=ambrosius+finland+gay&btnG=Search&meta=

Now the fact that his name was removed makes him even responsible and guilty for what is going on.
Maybe Bishop Ambrosius's name was removed from the list after you copied it to your blog, or maybe there's another explanation why His Grace's name still appears in the Google hit when it no longer appears on the linked web page.  I certainly can't say that I buy your explanation, since His Grace may have also had his name removed--if it was ever there to begin with--for much more noble reasons--maybe he repented under pressure from his flock and withdrew all support for the conference.  All I'm saying is that there are more viable explanations than just the one you offered here.

Theoprovlitos said:
Of course those who were critisizing me have nothing to say as well as about the fact that the General Secretary of Ecumenist Counsil is an Orthodox priest
An issue unrelated to the OP of this thread, but truly an issue about which we SHOULD be concerned even based on what little proof you've offered here.  However, tying this back into your OP, I don't see this as necessarily a reflection against the whole body of the Orthodox Church of Finland.
 

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Peter, honestly, does someone PAY you to erite the things that you write? Google presents the results WITH the bishops name, and so have I added the link in my blog 4 days ago. And I also wrote a letter to the ecumenical Patriarchate Fr Elpidoforos Lambriniadis more specifically presenting all the facts. And then the following day the bishops name disapears from the list of lecturers (while the link remains the same) and I finally due to the accusations towards my person that all this is a fraud I managed to located google's results as the link was appearing till yesterday and you are now suggesting that I made a consipracy with google to frame the bishop? Are you serious?

And how about the other priests which still appear on the link which is public of course? Are you suggesting that those priests are secretely participating in the conference adn the bishop hasn't noticed?

Can't you recognize that the situation in Finland is like hell and we have in one of those links the Archbishop's Theological Secretary Jyrki Harkonen calling the state to take measures against the Church he belongs and he is getting paid from, if that Church does not approve homosexuality?

The "Orthodox" magazines aren't they enough? Are you gay or Freemason? Because I do not get your point and the reason why youy are doing this.
 

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mike said:
Theoprovlitos said:
1. In the original text the name of the Bishop was removed today in PANIC after I informed about the conference the Constantinople, Moscow, Bulgarian and other Patriarchates and Churches. However other Orthodox participants in the program play an important role in the Finnish Church. But you can still find the name of the same bishop in the Freemason page on the other post.
It's only your word.
And Google.com's word.

Google.com's cached version of the page features the name of Bishop Ambrosios as Theoprovlitos has said.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:p6DVxgG7dLkJ:www.yhteys.org/ef2009b.html+%22Sexual+orientation,+identification+and+means+of+power+use+and+violence%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz

If that won't work for you because it is Google.com New Zealand then do a Google search using the phrase "Sexual orientation, identification and means of power use and violence"

Click on Google's CACHED version of the page.
 

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Well, the phrase "removed today in PANIC after I informed about the conference" is certainly a bit much, no?  You yourself admit that the name was removed merely one day after you mailed a letter to Constantinople (simply put: far too quickly for it to have reached them, for them to "PANIC," and then remove the name from the website) and the other churches.

Since it can be clearly demonstrated that his name was removed, how about clear justification?  Is he not going to participate?  Is he sick and unable to go?  Has he been reprimanded not to participate in this gathering?
 

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Theoprovlitos said:
Are you gay or Freemason?
Because he disagrees or has issues with your presentation, you automatically assume he's gay or a Freemason?

Theoprovlitos said:
Because I do not get your point and the reason why youy are doing this.
It's probably for the sake of preventing rumors from being spread needlessly.  There are plenty of stories that come here to OrthodoxChristianity.net - some of which are newsworthy and true, and others which are nothing more than libel and rumor.  We, who are hearers of the news, must be careful in receiving it, lest we be misled by false sources and those who are determined to tear the Church down (from within or without).

What you have claimed seems like it could indeed be true; but there is enough question in the sources and references to provide a "reasonable doubt."
 

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cleveland said:
Theoprovlitos said:
Because I do not get your point and the reason why youy are doing this.
It's probably for the sake of preventing rumors from being spread needlessly.  There are plenty of stories that come here to OrthodoxChristianity.net - some of which are newsworthy and true, and others which are nothing more than libel and rumor.  We, who are hearers of the news, must be careful in receiving it, lest we be misled by false sources and those who are determined to tear the Church down (from within or without).

What you have claimed seems like it could indeed be true; but there is enough question in the sources and references to provide a "reasonable doubt."
Exactly what I'm trying to communicate. ;D
 

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Well I can't know who is who. And I wrote a message here ( I didn't even know this forum before) because a friend of mine from California suggested that I should bring this to the surface because the situation in Finland is like this several years now, people complain to the bishop who never responds, others are being persecuted, they threaten the Orthodox Monsatery of New Valaam with boycott if they do not accept their ideas and nothing happens as long as this remains a private and a local issue.

People are translating the same texts as me and they send then over to Moscow asking them to start a local jurisdiction in Finland so that they can leave the Finnish Orthodox church. Last year it happend again and I send a leteer to the same person in the Patriarchate and the Synod of Finland isued an announcement that all tha tare exagerations of fanatics. The Synod's answer ws forwarded to me and I have it in my hands. What must I do so that I become reliable? Publish official documents in forums and in blogs?

I let it go for some months and then the Finnish Archbishop scandalized again last November when he gave an intervew to the Lutheran magazine Kotimaa claiming more or less that a married gay cannot only become clergy. Meaning that he serve in any other place in the Church or be gay but not married. Again I wrote about it to the blog and there was a special meeting there to see what the will do and the archbishop again started making up exvuses.

Now this was TOO MUCH. A gay conference with Lutheran gays who just accepted transexual pastors and a forum with Free masons that was too much. Again Finnish friends were sending me emails and info about what is going on here. And becasue they happen to work for the church and they have been thretened of losing their jobs I decided to help them out being in Greece, married to a Finnish wife and I know those people too well, since in the past we were friends with many of them.

When I mentioned letter to the Patriarchate I meant email letter with attachments from bishops activities. The perosn in the Patriarchate sow with his own eyes what was there. And becasue he was already furious with the local bishop since last year (he said angrily on the phone that his carrier is over) obviouly he immediately contacted the bishop and in a while the very same night the bishops name was removed.

Here is the message they sent me from Finland through facebook

May 11 at 12:13am
Reply:
The local metropolitan's name seems to have disappeared from the "christian" gay meeting's program in Järvenpää. Something is going on....

Given that my email to the Patriarchate, to the Synod of the Chrurch of Greece external relations department FrS., Church of Cyprus, Bulgarian Patriarchate, Moscow Patrarcahte Fr.G.  and several bishops in America and Greece was sen the very same morning that gives me the strong impression that the Finnish bishop removed his name in panic.

The fact is that if the situation does not stop there is going to be a new schisms since many Finns will move to the Patriarchate of Moscow with the secret blessings even of Greeks. Becasue moral corruption in combination with fallacies is more than what one can stand.

The local Finnish syndo had her time to change root. Instead of that She is moving into a dark pit. They even reject the Epistles and the Old Testament as reflecting old fashioned cultural ideas of the Jews!
 

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Guys but I had at least three people doubting every single word I mentioned. I mean I gave a link it was rejected for not being in English I gave a page it wasn't valid becasue iut wsn;t a link, I gave a link then it wasn't agian good becasue irt has been changed by the Finns. I gave you at least 6-7 links and non ofe them was considered  as reliable. As if the fact that priests of the Orthdox diocese are participating in a gay conference with common prayers and introduction of heresies and immorality such as that gay priests can live openly with thei lovers. As if it wasn't enough that Fr Heikki Huttunen is the bishops right hand and represents the Lutheran Church equaly with the Orthodox beign the secretary of the Ecumenical counsel of Finland. This practically means that in interamntional forums he also represents the Protestants being an Orthodox priest! And this is why his theology is DEEPLY protestant.

You give me the impression that you are trying to cover up and hide the whole thing under the carpet by making fool of me.

Whoever doesn't want to believe then he won't believe it no matter what. For someone else who is watching the signs of the times half of the evidences I already presented were more than enough. What else can I say. If we all don't stand up and protest NOW agiasnt such phenomena soon you will have to deal with such heresies in your local church.
 

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It's probably for the sake of preventing rumors from being spread needlessly.  There are plenty of stories that come here to OrthodoxChristianity.net - some of which are newsworthy and true, and others which are nothing more than libel and rumor.  We, who are hearers of the news, must be careful in receiving it, lest we be misled by false sources and those who are determined to tear the Church down (from within or without).
It is also peculiar that all of a sudden you are new to the forum and the first and only things about which you post are very sensitive topics centered around the OC in Finland. I agree that Orthodox involvement in conferences and matters like this are troubling, but your posts and your tone are meant to convey hatred towards our brethren. You didn't want to start a discussion or inform us of something newsworthy, you wanted to stir up hatred. That's all the two topics you've started are about.
 

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shep4569 said:
It's probably for the sake of preventing rumors from being spread needlessly.  There are plenty of stories that come here to OrthodoxChristianity.net - some of which are newsworthy and true, and others which are nothing more than libel and rumor.  We, who are hearers of the news, must be careful in receiving it, lest we be misled by false sources and those who are determined to tear the Church down (from within or without).
It is also peculiar that all of a sudden you are new to the forum and the first and only things about which you post are very sensitive topics centered around the OC in Finland. I agree that Orthodox involvement in conferences and matters like this are troubling, but your posts and your tone are meant to convey hatred towards our brethren. You didn't want to start a discussion or inform us of something newsworthy, you wanted to stir up hatred. That's all the two topics you've started are about.
If not hatred, then at least a panicked Chicken Little ("The sky is falling!") response.  If there's anything to be learned from the old children's tales, one thing I've learned is that a panicked tone most often shows one to be totally irrational and, therefore, unbelievable.
 

Theoprovlitos

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Guys you only know or onle can know the peak of the iceberg. I belive that hatred towars the Finnish Orthodox Church should refer to evryone who is Finnish Orthodox. In this case we are talking about a rotten environemtn who has been for some years now altering our dogmas, forming a mafia and percecuting thos who keep protesting with no response.

Yes there is no more tolerance towards them and yes we are sick and tired having to deal with this and that, every now and then, and be unable to resist. And the more this remains a local issue the more these people misbehave. How would you feel id some gues were claiming that Jeus Christ was homosexualand you protest and their reply is that you are a fundamentalist? Here we do not have to do with human weaknesses or a fall. We have to deal with hypocricy, hatred from THEIR side, persecution and oppression. It is easy to critise when you are outside a certain situation, nicely and safely while your fellow brothers are suffering from heretical people who are step by step are taking over the Church.
 

DerekMK

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lubeltri said:
Theoprovlitos said:
• 21.00-Orthodox vesper, supper, saunas
:eek:
Better than the sacristry as happens elsewhere.   ::)

Saunas are a normal part of Finish culture.  They are also a regular part of Russian culture.  Of course each time I went to the sauna (баня in Russian) it was a massive orgy of gay sex, so maybe you have a point.  Of course, you wouldn't want to take into account not imposing American cultural norms on a situation before making a snap judgement.  
 
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