Yet Another Gay Marriage Thread

[DerekMK]

Just visit the Finnish Orthodox Monastery of New Valamo and you will find a sauna right by the lake.  It is a part of their culture and nothing evil.

Jake is right. There is nothing wrong with sauna. It is their national bath since in the past 6 moths of the year there wasn't running water to wash oneself so I guess the climate was an important factor for the invention of sauna.

However I must admit that a... gay sauna does have a touch of 'spice' in it. I guess they will be admiring eachother's beauty.

ewwwwwww. Sounds pretty raunchy.

I've been in the Banya with quite a few Finns, and let me say that I've never met one whom nature hasn't well endowed.  There is nothing like the feeling of one of them, standing there in their masculine glory - dowsed in sweat, holding a birch branch.  They start lightly thrashing you with the birch branch - it's customary to get the circulation moving.  Ah, the feeling of that birch rubbing all over one's naked body and the sudden release (proper technique is to build up momentum, to loose yourself in rapture and then release all at once with the birch).  The sauna is always so much fun.  BTW, every sauna I've been in also performs abortions and has pews.    

 

[Alveus Lacuna]

BTW, every sauna I've been in also performs abortions and has pews.

Abortions are one thing, but PEWS!?!?!?!

 

[Jake]

Theoprovlitos, you have not provided any evidence at all that Archbishoop Ambrosius is a homosexual, that he is organizing a "Gay" conference in Helsinki or even that he is a Free Mason.

 

[Theoprovlitos]

Theoprovlitos, you have not provided any evidence at all that Archbishoop Ambrosius is a homosexual, that he is organizing a "Gay" conference in Helsinki or even that he is a Free Mason.

Did I say he is gay? And even if I know it I am not going to say it because it becomes personal. About the conference I provided a link where his name clearly appeared on the list as a lecturer and at least two of his priests participate there. I do not know if you are Orthodox, but in the Orthdoox priests need to have some blessing in order to particiapte is such events, especially as orgnizers or lectirers. The programm has been publishes since quite some time now.

About his being a Freemason well there is no way to discover that unless someone breaks in their records or he publically confesses it. Freemasons are not that kind of groups where anybody has access to their records.
However I have been told that he has publicly said that beeing Freemason is not opposed to being Orthdox while the Holy Synod of Greece ( I don't know about Russians) clearly condemend Freemasonry as a cult and many other things. So I wander for what other reason would Metropolitan Ambrosius host a Freemason & Orthdox meeting unless he is really out of reality and believes that all of sudden freemasons will bcome Orthodox in mass and reject freemasonry or even worse, introduce it in the Orthodox Church.

By the way, Metropolitan Ambrosius has also spoken positively for the ordination of women in the Orthdox Church in Helsinki Sanomat, the most popular Finnish newspaper. One more open front against the Orthdox tradition and dogmas.



MODERATION:  Title added to each mention of Metropolitan Ambrosius's name in order to maintain proper respect for the episcopal office of the Orthodox Church.  Theoprovlitos, regardless of what you think personally about any bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ, we at OC.net expect that the episcopal office will still be held in the highest regard.  Therefore, we ask that a bishop's name always be accompanied by his title.  Thank you.  -PtA

 

[Jake]

Theoprovlitos, you have not provided any evidence at all that Archbishoop Ambrosius is a homosexual, that he is organizing a "Gay" conference in Helsinki or even that he is a Free Mason.

Did I say he is gay? And even if I know it I am not going to say it because it becomes personal. About the conference I provided a link where his name clearly appeared on the list as a lecturer and at least two of his priests participate there. I do not know if you are Orthodox, but in the Orthdoox priests need to have some blessing in order to particiapte is such events, especially as orgnizers or lectirers. The programm has been publishes since quite some time now.

You are the person who started this thread and chose the title:
( Re: ORTHODOX BISHOP OF FINLAND ORGANIZES ECUMENIST GAY CONFERENCE ).

But you provided no proof at all that Archbishop Ambrosius of Helsinki organized a "gay" conference.

So the title of this thread is misinformation.

The same can be said about the thread regarding Free Masons.  An Orthodox Bishop did not organize their meeting.

 

[Theoprovlitos]

Jake

It seems that you have to go back and check all the links. A gay heretical event that takes place in his diocese, with him participating as a lecturer and at least two of his most important Orthdox priests as lecturers and members of the organizing committee, yes he is the mastermind behind it.

If the church has organizations in it (e.g. Charity, Aid to third world, Choir etc) and these organizations that function under the umbrella of the Diocese particiapte in forums and conferences it is the Diocese that particaipate if not directly, undireclty for sure.

Unless Anbrosius has lost control of his diocese and his priest and church memebrs do whatever they like and they completely ignore him while he is completly unainble to put some order in his own home. It is one thing or another. There is no third alternative solution.

A bishop cannot participate or send his priests particiapte e.g. in scheduled human sacrifice ceremonies and then claim that these practices have nothing to do with his diocese. This is underestimation of our intelligence.

 

[Alpo]

In the protestant worldview either you are good and saved or bad and you perish.

Interesting. I've usually heard this straw man argument being used by Protestans and against Catholics. It's rather refreshing to see it being used against the Protestants and even by an Orthodox. ;D

 

[Theoprovlitos]

MODERATION:  Title added to each mention of Metropolitan Ambrosius's name in order to maintain proper respect for the episcopal office of the Orthodox Church.  Theoprovlitos, regardless of what you think personally about any bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ, we at OC.net expect that the episcopal office will still be held in the highest regard.  Therefore, we ask that a bishop's name always be accompanied by his title.  Thank you.  -PtA
[/quote]

The bishop's title has been omitted not out of direspect to his scheme but for brevity's sake and quick typing, in the same way as we say in spoken language Bartholomew or Alexius speaking of the Patriarchs once their identity and title have been mentioned before and they are evident

 

[PeterTheAleut]

MODERATION:  Title added to each mention of Metropolitan Ambrosius's name in order to maintain proper respect for the episcopal office of the Orthodox Church.  Theoprovlitos, regardless of what you think personally about any bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ, we at OC.net expect that the episcopal office will still be held in the highest regard.  Therefore, we ask that a bishop's name always be accompanied by his title.  Thank you.  -PtA

The bishop's title has been omitted not out of direspect to his scheme but for brevity's sake and quick typing, in the same way as we say in spoken language Bartholomew or Alexius speaking of the Patriarchs once their identity and title have been mentioned before and they are evident
[/quote]
That doesn't matter.  I have notified you of what forum policy is regarding the respect we are to give our bishops in forum communications.  This is not up for discussion.

 

[Theoprovlitos]

You have more than twice now alleged that those who question your credibility and your sources are in league to shut you up because they support Freemasonry and the introduction of homosexuality into the Church.  I'm not aware that anyone whom you have accused has ever admitted to any such motive.  So you have 48 hours to either publicly recant your slanderous accusations and apologize to those you have accused or face the consequences of slandering members of this forum (i.e., formal warning/post moderation).

- PeterTheAleut
Moderator[/b][/color]

First of all I would like to know who runs and owns this place. I mean there has to be ONE person legaly and moraly responsible befroe the law for what is going on in here because I see TOO many free-lance moderators and I am not supposed to reply to ANYONE who demads it unless I WANT to. ESPECIALLY when he demands it. Therefore I will answer the rest once my question will be answered.

 

[Theoprovlitos]

That doesn't matter.  I have notified you of what forum policy is regarding the respect we are to give our bishops in forum communications.  This is not up for discussion.

Respect doesn't come from titles but from the way one behaves to others, especially toawards those one does not necessarily agree with. In any case I am the one being exposed and not the forum, unless the forum agrees with everyone who writes in here or everyone has to agree with the forum. I guess free speach is among the values which the American democracy was build on. Besides, for the sake of free religious rights which are practiced int he United States if I am a Jew or an atheist or a Muslim I am not even obliged to call people of other dogmas with their religious tiltes, since they might not reflect my religious views unless they are being violated.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

You have more than twice now alleged that those who question your credibility and your sources are in league to shut you up because they support Freemasonry and the introduction of homosexuality into the Church.  I'm not aware that anyone whom you have accused has ever admitted to any such motive.  So you have 48 hours to either publicly recant your slanderous accusations and apologize to those you have accused or face the consequences of slandering members of this forum (i.e., formal warning/post moderation).

- PeterTheAleut
Moderator[/b][/color]

First of all I would like to know who runs and owns this place. I mean there has to be ONE person legaly and moraly responsible befroe the law for what is going on in here because I see TOO many free-lance moderators and I am not supposed to reply to ANYONE who demads it unless I WANT to. ESPECIALLY when he demands it. Therefore I will answer the rest once my question will be answered.

As I mentioned earlier, if you want to question my moderation of this Christian News board, the people you need to talk to are the Global Moderators (and my direct supervisors), cleveland and Veniamin.  Moderators do not act alone on the OC.net forum.  We work together as a somewhat structured team.  You should also avail yourself of some time to familiarize yourself with forum policy, which can be read on the following pages:

• OrthodoxChristianity.net Rules and Regulations
• Read Me! Compiled Board policies, information points, etc.

 

[PeterTheAleut]

That doesn't matter.  I have notified you of what forum policy is regarding the respect we are to give our bishops in forum communications.  This is not up for discussion.

Respect doesn't come from titles but from the way one behaves to others, especially toawards those one does not necessarily agree with. In any case I am the one being exposed and not the forum, unless the forum agrees with everyone who writes in here or everyone has to agree with the forum. I guess free speach is among the values which the American democracy was build on. Besides, for the sake of free religious rights which are practiced int he United States if I am a Jew or an atheist or a Muslim I am not even obliged to call people of other dogmas with their religious tiltes, since they might not reflect my religious views unless they are being violated.

As I said, this is not up for discussion.  If you question my moderatorial instructions on this thread one more time, you will be placed on Post Moderation.  Send cleveland or Veniamin a private message, instead.

 

[Theoprovlitos]

Then the problem is that one cannot know from the start who are the modertors and how many there are. And if necessarily they all agree with each other -not on the policy of the forum (obviously there has to be some)- but on their PERSONAL views. I don't feel confortable in a forum being a mouse among many cats who wait behind every corner.
And I guess that when one expresses an opinion obviously not ALL moderators are going to agree. Am I, or are we subject of each moderator's personal views?

My protest is -and has been form the start- that I have been in an orchstrated way accused for a fraud no matter many evidences, links as well as testimonies of other people that "there is something rotten in the Kingdom of Finland".

I wrote here in order to present some NEWS and FACTS no matter not pleasant for none of us, including myself. I am not here to argue with anyone ( I have MUCH moe important things to do) and I realy don't see a reason why I am being attacked unless I am lead to the rational conclusion that I am being scorned not becasue what I am saying is not true but because it IS.

I understand that OCnet has to maintain a good name or protect itself from risks but diplomacy and political correctness is not always a virtue theologically speaking. Especially if the aim of this site is the protection and promotion of Orthodoxy and not an aim in itself.

 

[Theoprovlitos]

I am trying to find a link to Veniamin or cleveland

 

[Theoprovlitos]

I don't know, am I supposed to answer this? Why Orestis isn't appologizing for accusing me for misleading people in this forum in other words that I am a fraud? And once this is cleared that I am, then I may appoligize both for my "lies" as well as my "accusations". For I was the one to be offended FIRST.

Orestis

Peopel who do not WANT to believe they selectively see what they WANT to see. You do not even speak Finnish adn you know nothing about the issue but yuo are easily claime that all the data which I present are "misleading".

Then in this case you belong to the same team who wants to make people SHUT UP  becuase they protest for teh grdual indrodcution of homosecyality in the church.

I left even more links above and waiting for answers. Though I suspect that I am rather going to get excuses and evasions

 Theoprovlitos,
More than 48 hours ago, you were given 48 hours to recant your accusations that those who have here questioned your sources are acting on a secret agenda to introduce Freemasonry and homosexuality into the Church and to apologize to those you accused.  You have not done so yet; in fact, you have done the exact opposite by continuing to make these accusations.  Therefore, you are receiving this formal warning for slanderous ad hominems against members of this forum.  If you continue to make such accusations, you will be placed on post moderation, which means that your posts will need to be approved by a moderator before they appear on the forum.  If you feel this warning is in error, feel free to use the private messaging system to appeal my decision to either cleveland or Veniamin.
- PeterTheAleut​

 

[Alveus Lacuna]

OC.net hates true Orthodoxy!

 

[Theoprovlitos]

OC.net hates true Orthodoxy!

I don't know anymore what to think. This is so sad...
Are you under Bishop Longin? May I ask what is/was your religious background?

 

[Theoprovlitos]

http://www.vantaa.fi/en/i_perusdokumentti.asp?path=1;135;137;2620;218;58993;1858;29614;75210;75231

The church's attitude towards homosexuality has become more tolerant.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland

In a “Shepherd letter” written in 1966 under the title Ajankohtainen asia (A Topical Issue), the bishops of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland spoke of homosexuality as a sin. In 1975, the Church Research Institute published a study that defended the right of homosexuals to hold positions within the Church. The study met with a lot of criticism within the Church, including in the General Synod. In the 1980s, the bishops no longer called homosexuality a sin, although they did imply that the Church might not allow active homosexuals among it employees. In 1993, archbishop John Vikström was accused of heresy because of his positive views regarding gay and lesbian people. His case was later reviewed by the diocesan chapter of Turku.

The dismissal on grounds of homosexuality of the Vanhakirkko parish youth worker Seppo Kivistö in 1974 started the public debate on the attitude of the church towards homosexuality. Demonstration in Vanhakirkko church park. Veli Hyvärinen. Private collection.

In recent years, there has also been pro-homosexual activity within the Church. The Kallio parish (Kallion seurakunta) in Helsinki has since year 1999 officially embraced rainbow people in its spiritual work. The first Rainbow Vesper service was held in 1999 at Helsinki Cathedral Chapel. In the 21st century, Rainbow Masses have been held in connection with Gay Pride events in Vaasa, Helsinki and Tampere. An ecumenical group called Yhteys (Alliance) is working to promote more liberal attitudes towards sexual and gender minorities within the Church. This is also one of the goals of Tulkaa kaikki (Everybody Come), a group that campaigned actively in the 2006 parish elections.


The Finnish Orthodox Church

In its official statements, the Finnish Orthodox Church has a negative stand on homosexuality. In a comment on registered partnerships in 1992, the Episcopal Conference stated that “the Christian understanding of a family must not be undermined or blurred by extending the concept of family to include constructions that are alien to the Christian ones”. In the late 1990s, the Episcopal Conference concluded that “the goal of ridding the society of injustice is a just one”. In their opinion, however, these attempts to improve the status of gay and lesbian couples should not lead to a situation where their partnerships are equated with “traditional families”.

Overall, the topic of homosexuality has not stirred the same kind of heated debate within the Orthodox Church as it has within the Evangelical Lutheran Church. Some Orthodox clergy have blessed the homes of gay and lesbian couples, and some have even agreed to the blessing of same-sex unions. On the other hand, there have also been isolated cases of parishioners being denied communion because of their same-sex partnerships.


Christian movements

The first Christian group for gay and lesbian people came into being in the context of Seta in the mid 1970s. This was later followed by another Christian group of Seta, Malkus, which has remained active ever since it was founded in Helsinki in 1981. In the course of the years, there have also been Christian groups in Tampere and Turku. In addition, there is a group called Arcus for church employees and active members of the parish who belong to a sexual minority.

 

[Orest]

I see from the archives that this topic has been discussed last year in 2008 with Theoprovlitos starting the thread with unfounded accusations.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,18525.0.html

From last year's post, I think this article mentioned by someone from Finland is important.  The writer states that the head of the Finnish Orthodox Church, Metropolitan Leo maintains the traditional orthodox stance:

http://www.hs.fi/tulosta/1135241059236
Archbishop Leo Denies Gay Priests can Live together.
Arkkipiispa Leo: "Ortodoksipappi ei voi elää rekisteröidyssä parisuhteessa"

That interview practically says that an orthodox priest cannot live in a homosexual relationship. Furthermore, His Grace ( is this the correct title? ) has said earlier that the homosexual relationships are not part of the Orthodox Tradition. It seems that the heretical gay mafia has had quite a little success in it's manipulation.  
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,18525.0.html