Yet Another Gay Marriage Thread

Homosexuality comes up frequenbtly on Orthodox forums because..

  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Since drunkeness, adultery, theft and dishonesty have been eradicated it's the only sin left to figh

    Votes: 10 13.9%
  • Apparently most Orthodox Christians have lots of gay family, friends and associates

    Votes: 7 9.7%
  • Orthodox forums attract a lot of self torturing closet cases and men with doubts about thier own mas

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 15 20.8%

  • Total voters
    72
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PeterTheAleut

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Theoprovlitos said:
PoorFoolNicholas said:
You're doing a great job at proving your point Theoprovlitos.  ::)

Just as an aside, Do they call themselves the "Gay Mafia", or is this your title for them? If it is YOUR title you are, yet again, showing how UNobjective you are, and therefore, LESS believable.
No the term gay mafia is used by me. It has een used by the Archbishop Leo in private discussion with a theoligian who went to discuss with him on the issue but of course the only way you can proove that, is have the two people involved admit it.

Anyway they consist of a group because it is the very same people everywhere promoting each other to important positions in the Church promoting homosexuality and threatening those who protest.

As for example when the theologian Hannu Poyhonen, of the New Valaam Monastery Lay Academy gave a lecture about the true Orthodox views on homosexuality, the chairman of the Lay Academy who also happens to be First priest of Helsinki parish and member of the Ecumenist Gay Club went to Valamo in order to make Poyhonen shut up otherwise his job is at risk and "his people" would start a boycot against the New Valaam Lay Academy and the monastery itself. Abbot Sergei is of the Orthodox line and took Poyhonen's side unlike Archbishop Leo who was present and didn't open his mouth playing the "diplomat". His secretary also belongs to the Orthodox Gay Club.

The Gay Club, or mafia -name it as you wish but "Church"- tries to manipulate also Valaam Monastery. The sad thing is that they have managed to introduce discretely their gay propaganda also in the Finnish Orthodox Schoolbooks:

Here it is the part that introduces HOMOSEXUALITY AMONG SCHOOLCHILDREN:

"The Orthodox teaching on love and sexuality includes within it MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. ALL of them however lead to the service of love. Love is a deeper service and sexuality is just one small part of it."

Then "The main teacher of Christian sexual ethics HAS BEEN for long Apostle Paul."

From Finnish "Orthodox" schoolbook "Orthodox Ethics and Dogmatic/Ortodoksinen Etiikka ja Dogmatikka" page 57.

Of course this is not the ONLY fallacy that has been included simply because Finns believe that they are their OWN teachers and this book has never been checked by a committee of expert theolgians from Greece or Russia.

In another part which reflects their perception of a NEw Age Rainbow God is on the chapter on the existence of evil and suffering, where the author claims that "God's work only starts AFTER the catastrophy because the existance of evil is mystery also to Him" (page 66).  No wander when these people believe in a NEw Age Christ -who is never angry or a judge- that they would come to the conclusion that EVERYTHING around sex is allowed and the only-good Rainbow Christ not only tolerates imorality but He blesses it!
So, just more of what you say is going on. ::)  Where's the proof?  Don't just tell me to go find it online.  Bring it here and post links to it.
 

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http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=6046

21 May 2009, 17:38
Clerics of Constantinople Patriarchate to participate in a gay conference in Finland

Helsinki, May 21, Interfax - The clerics of the Finnish Orthodox Church of the Constantinople Patriarchate are going to participate in the European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups Conference Courage to Follow the Law of Love which opened Tuesday in Järvenpää and Helsinki, Finland.

The participants will begin every day by attending the Orthodox service, and then going to sauna, the social movement Yhteys (Unity) which is fighting for the rights of sexual minorities, reports.
...
The entire article at the link above.
 

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The silence is deafening.  Someone provides what is no doubt a credible news source, namely Interfax; and one can hear a pin drop.  Finland may seem light years away, but if this situation is not dealt with, then for the first time in Orthodox church history, a considerable amount of Eastern Rite churches will be in the hands of sodomites.  They will spread this movement from Finland to other regions, setting up parallel "gay friendly" jurisdictions.  At the very least all of us should be grieved and sickened over this.  We should bring this to the attention of our bishops.  Do not just read about this on a blog and live a virtual reality on a screen; contact your bishop with this Interfax report. 
 

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??? What is being discussed here? This thread has stopped making sense a long time ago.

The OP speaks about the gay conference that will include participation of Orthodox clergy. Our poster Theoprovlitos provided a link to the website of the group called "yhteys" right from the start. The participation of Orthodox clergy in this event was never in question.

Thank you orthodoxlurker for posting the interfax link. It is interesting to see that this event is noted elsewhere also. Unfortunately Interfax has chosen to blame Constantinople instead of Helsinki :-\ talk about barking up the wrong three.  ::)
 

PeterTheAleut

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Aristobolus said:
The silence is deafening.  Someone provides what is no doubt a credible news source, namely Interfax; and one can hear a pin drop.
I guess you can take the internet silence however you're inclined to take it.  However, it may just mean that no one has had time to respond to this news flash until now.  Internet discussion forums have a totally different concept of time than real life discussions.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Robert W said:
Thank you orthodoxlurker for posting the interfax link. It is interesting to see that this event is noted elsewhere also. Unfortunately Interfax has chosen to blame Constantinople instead of Helsinki :-\ talk about barking up the wrong three.  ::)
I notice also that the Interfax article doesn't go into any detail regarding the official positions the Orthodox participants (outside of maybe Fr. Heikki Huttunen) have decided to represent in this conference.
 

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Robert W said:
I do not think that the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Patriarch of Moscow are blind and dumb. They know what is going on. I get the feeling they are just waiting for the Finnish Church to "sit straight" (pun actually intended, sorry 8)
That's hilarious. Awesome pun. :)

Now to be serious, I agree with the quoted statement. I don't necessarily agree with the lack of verbal action and outcry from the EP (apparently the application of Canon 28 is more important than preventing heresy...okay back on track), but eventually they'll do something. I guess we can only pray that wisdom prevails. The Church lives on in the hearts of the true faithful that flee from the heretics. Hopefully there won't be any pillars of salt to clean up after they flee.
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
Robert W said:
Thank you orthodoxlurker for posting the interfax link. It is interesting to see that this event is noted elsewhere also. Unfortunately Interfax has chosen to blame Constantinople instead of Helsinki :-\ talk about barking up the wrong three.  ::)
I notice also that the Interfax article doesn't go into any detail regarding the official positions the Orthodox participants (outside of maybe Fr. Heikki Huttunen) have decided to represent in this conference.
Peter you are HOPELESS. From the start I had to deal in this webste and forum A PERSONAL attack SYSTEMATICALLY doubting my credibility, my reliability no matter the DOZENS of proofs which were more than evidences. I have SYSTEMATICALLY been object to accusations that I present even elements which I MADE UP or a "dark mind" behind this is organizing gay conferences which "do not exist".

What you have managed to do is proof thet this FORUM as well as this WEBSITE is INFAMOUS and is pushing its views on the participants or it SCORNS those who disagree with the PERSONAL views of various "moderators" which by the way afe FAR from being Orthodox. Simply becasue they do not understand the simple thing that the participation of PRIESTS in an OFFICIAL ECUMENIST meeting CANNOT take place without the approval of the local bishop. The bishop had ALL THE TIME to stop these priests in the very same way the did with Fr Mitro Reppo about his particiapation in the elections but he didn't.

As to the heretical schoolbook it can be found from the internet and once you buy it you can get all the evidences you may need.

That's enough. Don't ruin the image of the forum even more. Cause from facebook messages and private messages that I got, people don't seem to appreciate what is going on.
 

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Robert W said:
...The participation of Orthodox clergy in this event was never in question.
...
Good to finally see recognition of that fact. Hopefully nobody will mock Theopravlitos' efforts anymore.

Robert W said:
Unfortunately Interfax has chosen to blame Constantinople instead of Helsinki :-\ talk about barking up the wrong three.  ::)
Since Helsinki is an autonomous Church within Constantinoplean see, there is nothing wrong in their emphasize. Constantinopolis should be the first to react, or, should I say was supposed to react first when Finland, as part of Constantinopolis, placed herself under anathema by celebrating Easter on the date of her own choosing.

 

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Here is the whole news article from Interfax in case someone cannot connect with the link.

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=6046

21 May 2009, 17:38
Clerics of Constantinople Patriarchate to participate in a gay conference in Finland

Helsinki, May 21, Interfax - The clerics of the Finnish Orthodox Church of the Constantinople Patriarchate are going to participate in the European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups Conference Courage to Follow the Law of Love which opened Tuesday in Järvenpää and Helsinki, Finland.

The participants will begin every day by attending the Orthodox service, and then going to sauna, the social movement Yhteys (Unity) which is fighting for the rights of sexual minorities, reports.

May 22, Helsinki University will host the open church seminar which will address the issues of homosexual relations. According to a published schedule, General Secretary of the Finnish Ecumenical Council Archpriest Heikki Huttunen will present his paper Homosexuality in the Orthodox theology.

In January issue of Aamun Koitto, this well-known priest of the Finnish Orthodox Church addressed at length  his viewpoint on homosexual "marriage" as "the reflection of the Divine power and benign sexual source."

The clergy of Constantinople Patriarchate also intends to hold a discussion of the issues of spiritual integration of homosexuals into the Church. The subject matter of one session is entitled as Can a male priest fall in love to another man and live with him?
 

PoorFoolNicholas

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Tamara said:
Here is the whole news article from Interfax in case someone cannot connect with the link.

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=6046

21 May 2009, 17:38
Clerics of Constantinople Patriarchate to participate in a gay conference in Finland

Helsinki, May 21, Interfax - The clerics of the Finnish Orthodox Church of the Constantinople Patriarchate are going to participate in the European Forum of LGBT Christian Groups Conference Courage to Follow the Law of Love which opened Tuesday in Järvenpää and Helsinki, Finland.

The participants will begin every day by attending the Orthodox service, and then going to sauna, the social movement Yhteys (Unity) which is fighting for the rights of sexual minorities, reports.

May 22, Helsinki University will host the open church seminar which will address the issues of homosexual relations. According to a published schedule, General Secretary of the Finnish Ecumenical Council Archpriest Heikki Huttunen will present his paper Homosexuality in the Orthodox theology.

In January issue of Aamun Koitto, this well-known priest of the Finnish Orthodox Church addressed at length  his viewpoint on homosexual "marriage" as "the reflection of the Divine power and benign sexual source."

The clergy of Constantinople Patriarchate also intends to hold a discussion of the issues of spiritual integration of homosexuals into the Church. The subject matter of one session is entitled as Can a male priest fall in love to another man and live with him?
Thank you. This is indeed troubling. And I know what is coming next so I will address it now:
Theoprovlitos, if you had simply provided what Tamara did above, many would have had more of a reason to trust your allegations.
 

PoorFoolNicholas

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Αριστοκλής said:
Come on, man. It's Interfax. Unnamed 'clergy of Constantinople Patriarchate'?
I am just saying that it looks better than what we have been given previously. Should I know something about interfax, that I am missing?
 

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"I guess you can take the internet silence however you're inclined to take it.  However, it may just mean that no one has had time to respond to this news flash until now.  Internet discussion forums have a totally different concept of time than real life discussions".

Point taken.

Theoprovlitos, be careful saying someone is "hopeless".  Possibly English is not your first language; this can cause communication challenges both in receiving and giving messages.  However, I commend you for your concern regarding our Faith. 

But personal jibes will only give food for the fodder for those who would want this stuff in Finland to fly under the radar- not that anyone here does per se.  Those who are concerned should forward this Interfax report to their Bishops and request them to contact the appropriate Heirarchs.  At the very least then you will have done about all you can accept to pray.
 

PeterTheAleut

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Tamara said:
The clergy of Constantinople Patriarchate also intends to hold a discussion of the issues of spiritual integration of homosexuals into the Church. The subject matter of one session is entitled as Can a male priest fall in love to another man and live with him?
Why do people automatically assume that just because some church group decides to discuss an issue, they must necessarily consider the issue potentially acceptable?  I run into this "We oppose it, so why even discuss it?" attitude far too often in the Church.  What if it turns out that the clergy discussing this matter will all answer the question of discussion with a very firm "NO!" and are only discussing how best to voice this "NO!"?
 

Irish Hermit

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Tamara said:
In January issue of Aamun Koitto, this well-known priest of the Finnish Orthodox Church addressed at length  his viewpoint on
homosexual "marriage" as "the reflection of the Divine power and benign sexual source."
I'd be very interested in seeing this article.  Is there any chance of obtaining an English translation?


As an aside,  I am a marriage celebrant for both the Church and the State (in New Zealand, Church marriage celebrants are all State registered so when we officiate at a wedding we have the dual role as a Christian priest and an agent of the Government.)

I am however forbidden by the Governemt from officiating at homosexual weddings.  At the time of the law legalising homosexual marriage, clergy were fobidden to officiate.  In order to qualify a priest/minister must pass a State interview to demonstrate that he is pro gay marriage. 

 

SolEX01

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Theoprovlitos said:
PeterTheAleut said:
Robert W said:
Thank you orthodoxlurker for posting the interfax link. It is interesting to see that this event is noted elsewhere also. Unfortunately Interfax has chosen to blame Constantinople instead of Helsinki :-\ talk about barking up the wrong three.  ::)
I notice also that the Interfax article doesn't go into any detail regarding the official positions the Orthodox participants (outside of maybe Fr. Heikki Huttunen) have decided to represent in this conference.
Peter you are HOPELESS. From the start I had to deal in this webste and forum A PERSONAL attack SYSTEMATICALLY doubting my credibility, my reliability no matter the DOZENS of proofs which were more than evidences. I have SYSTEMATICALLY been object to accusations that I present even elements which I MADE UP or a "dark mind" behind this is organizing gay conferences which "do not exist".

What you have managed to do is proof thet this FORUM as well as this WEBSITE is INFAMOUS and is pushing its views on the participants or it SCORNS those who disagree with the PERSONAL views of various "moderators" which by the way afe FAR from being Orthodox. Simply becasue they do not understand the simple thing that the participation of PRIESTS in an OFFICIAL ECUMENIST meeting CANNOT take place without the approval of the local bishop. The bishop had ALL THE TIME to stop these priests in the very same way the did with Fr Mitro Reppo about his particiapation in the elections but he didn't.

As to the heretical schoolbook it can be found from the internet and once you buy it you can get all the evidences you may need.

That's enough. Don't ruin the image of the forum even more. Cause from facebook messages and private messages that I got, people don't seem to appreciate what is going on.
Friend, maybe I've missed the message.  Have you demonstrated that any Bishop of the Church of Finland and/or Archbishop Leo has condemned this meeting?

Since Finland is an autonomous Church, not even the EP can intervene.  So far, His All Holiness has made no official comment.  Therefore, whether you agree with the Church of Finland's stance towards homosexuals or not, do not expect His All Holiness to take a stand and stop this meeting because you disagree with its theories.  If the Church of Finland wants to fall into heresy, let it.
 

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If a person or church wants to fall into heresy, let them?  Possibly this was not phrased well.  Should our concern not be for our neighbor? 
 

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PeterTheAleut said:
Tamara said:
The clergy of Constantinople Patriarchate also intends to hold a discussion of the issues of spiritual integration of homosexuals into the Church. The subject matter of one session is entitled as Can a male priest fall in love to another man and live with him?
Why do people automatically assume that just because some church group decides to discuss an issue, they must necessarily consider the issue potentially acceptable?  I run into this "We oppose it, so why even discuss it?" attitude far too often in the Church.  What if it turns out that the clergy discussing this matter will all answer the question of discussion with a very firm "NO!" and are only discussing how best to voice this "NO!"?
If this conference is sponsored by Lutherans in Finland who believe practicing homosexual relationships are part of God's will for mankind, it is more than likely they are in agreement with any speakers who have been asked to join their meeting. In other words, they are not going to want to hear any words of dissent on what they believe to be true.

Anyway, time will tell. It will be interesting to see the results of this conference.
 
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