Yet Another Gay Marriage Thread

Homosexuality comes up frequenbtly on Orthodox forums because..

  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Since drunkeness, adultery, theft and dishonesty have been eradicated it's the only sin left to figh

    Votes: 10 13.9%
  • Apparently most Orthodox Christians have lots of gay family, friends and associates

    Votes: 7 9.7%
  • Orthodox forums attract a lot of self torturing closet cases and men with doubts about thier own mas

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 15 20.8%

  • Total voters
    72
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greekischristian

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pensateomnia said:
Her opinion on the matter is that she wants to protect her kids from sexual deviance. Thus, her concern is motherly and practical, not propositional.
An opinion stated dogmatically, though at odds with current scientific research in the field. Though my concern is academic and intellictual, not reactionary.
 

ozgeorge

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Just finished using the tag feature and a google site search to compile a list of seperate threads directly dealing with the topic of homosexuality on this forum to date. The list is by no means exaustive, and was the result of searching only for the keyword "homosexual" (not "gay" etc).


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10774.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5260.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11688.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5459.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11890.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11897.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,3825.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,6577.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,8458.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,8122.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,8068.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9156.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9360.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9330.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9297.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,7531.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11954.0.html


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5780.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5780.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11322.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9135.0.html
 

Jonas Suender

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quote by cleveland

How about #6: It is a socially unacceptable sin (unlike adultery, which at times is okay as long as it isn't public) that makes the perpetrator to seem more like a leper than the rest of us, who commit sins of equal magnitude yet because they are socially "acceptable" or "normal" don't get the condemnation.  THus, we use the internet like a lynch mob starting ground, to stir up anger at a sin which is just as bad as the anger and fury we wish to unleash upon it (specifically because our anger is not righteous anger, but rather fearful and ignorant).


Yes.  Well said.

I've often thought that homosexuality is one of the favorite things of many conservatives.  They sure talk about it enough.  I think that is because homosexuality gives them something to hate in others, and it thereby allows them to overlook their own sins.  After all, heterosexual adultery and fornication and pornography are much more widespread and damaging to society; yet, it is the gays who are the targets of the most intense hatred.  I think being anti-gay also allows many preachers, priests, and ministers to lead safely (and sometimes lucratively) without worrying about alienating their congregations (who are often also their employers).  It also sometimes seems like a kind of tribalism, by which the members of a group define theselves by whom they hate.  Finally, I think some people are repulsed by homosexuality, for a variety of reasons, and they use religion as a socially acceptable means of expressing their revulsion. 

 

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Asteriktos said:
Interestingly, in some ancient cultures it was considered more manly to have homosexual relations. Though I should say, lest I give the wrong impression by my recent posts, that I am not a homosexual myself :)  "Not that there's anything wrong with that."
I don't know if it was considered 'more manly', but I know that in some cultures it was considered acceptable as long as you were doing the penetrating.  The guy recieving would not have been considered manly at all.
 

ytterbiumanalyst

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Personally, I'm sick of the subject. Coming out of evangelical Protestantism, it seemed homosexuality was the worst of all sins, and I heard endless sermons blasting gays for all the problems of society. Orthodoxy I know is more reasonable about the subject, but still...Can't people talk about moral issues that don't have to do with sex?
 

ozgeorge

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ytterbiumanalyst said:
Personally, I'm sick of the subject. Coming out of evangelical Protestantism, it seemed homosexuality was the worst of all sins, and I heard endless sermons blasting gays for all the problems of society. Orthodoxy I know is more reasonable about the subject, but still...Can't people talk about moral issues that don't have to do with sex?
What did you vote in the poll? I've gone for the Prozac theory.

 

Ebor

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ytterbiumanalyst said:
Personally, I'm sick of the subject. Coming out of evangelical Protestantism, it seemed homosexuality was the worst of all sins, and I heard endless sermons blasting gays for all the problems of society. Orthodoxy I know is more reasonable about the subject, but still...Can't people talk about moral issues that don't have to do with sex?
Oh!  I like that idea.  You mean that people could look at things like lying and cheating and gossping and pride and stealing and how that affects how we deal with other people? 

The idea of "Moral issues = sex" is an easy one for people to get on to because, imo, it often becomes "look at what *that* perverted person is doing and how wrong it is" rather then looking at oneself.

Ebor
 

Heorhij

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I agree with what Cleveland said. Homosexuality is just a convenient, easy target.

Personally, I would never raise this issue. I understand that all our sins are just that - sins. A so-called "heterosexual" who sins is not any better than a so-called "homosexual" who sins.
 

greekischristian

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ozgeorge said:
What did you vote in the poll? I've gone for the Prozac theory.
Only because potential side effects of SSRI's are ED and diminished libido...thus helping to bring some of the closet cases down and lets them worry about things other than where they can and cannot stick a certain appendage...of course this unfortunately only works about half the time, so we'll keep seeing the self-hating anti-gay posts from the other half, even after they get on their prozac. ;)
 

Jonas Suender

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I'm agreeing with other posters who said that there are other, more important issues in Orthodoxy than this. 
 

scamandrius

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Jonas Suender said:
I'm agreeing with other posters who said that there are other, more important issues in Orthodoxy than this. 
But we shouldn't be afraid to talk about this and continue to expound the truth.  Nor should we trumpet it every single second and mock and condemn homosexuals like those radicals out of Topeka, KS led by Phelps.  I was in Topeka last week and I saw a few of them with their trademark signs which I will not lay out here.  Scary!
 

ytterbiumanalyst

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^
I'm not afraid to talk about it, I just see homosexuality as pretty much a non-issue among Orthodox. We don't condemn people who struggle with same-sex attraction, but most of those who do struggle with it treat it properly, as sin but no less or greater than any other sin. They work with their priests to overcome the temptation, same as all of us.

Jonas Suender said:
I'm agreeing with other posters who said that there are other, more important issues in Orthodoxy than this. 
Absolutely. I'm not saying that this isn't an important issue; we as Orthodox need to be acutely aware of the effects of sin, of whatever kind. Yet there are definitely many issues which affect many more people that are not being addressed as well by the Church. Money, for example, was Jesus' number-one most preached-about topic, yet many of our churches fail to preach about the proper uses of money, except to encourage tithing. If Christians were as concerned about money as they were about homosexuality, we could put a significant dent in the fiscal irresponsibility this country is heavily involved in. And that's just one example. I for one would love to see on this board people tackle some really tough moral issues. I think I'll bring some up myself, as well.
 

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Because there aren't adulters or "fornicators right's groups" that are demanding government approval of their sexual fetishes.  We may not punish adultery in criminal courts, but the punishments for it handed out by family courts can be a heck of a lot worse than a little jail time.  Not to mention that there is a significantly lower standard of evidence in a family court than in a criminal courtroom.  Fornicators don't have lobbies dedicated to making the state recongize their lifestyle.  For example, no one made a peep when Washington state stuck "common law marriage" in the rubbish bin and it's hardly a fortress of fundievangelicalism.
Personally, I can't wait until the S&M subculture gets an advocate lobby going and wants the state to assign the same legal weight to bondage guild concil decisions as court orders.
 

greekischristian

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CCM08 said:
Because there aren't adulters or "fornicators right's groups" that are demanding government approval of their sexual fetishes.
We don't have 'people with two arms and two legs rights groups' either...what's the point? 95% of the population has premarital sex, society already approves of this activity (or at least 95% of society has demonstrated by their actions that they approve of it, of those 95% who feign not to, they're hypocrites).

We may not punish adultery in criminal courts, but the punishments for it handed out by family courts can be a heck of a lot worse than a little jail time.  Not to mention that there is a significantly lower standard of evidence in a family court than in a criminal courtroom.
Only in backwards states dominated by evangelical protestants where it's still acceptable to marry your first cousin. Here in California (as in much of the west) we have community property, in case of divorce everyone gets half of all community property, it's a simple matter of civil (as opposed to common) law.
 
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CCM08 said:
Because there aren't adulters or "fornicators right's groups" that are demanding government approval of their sexual fetishes.  We may not punish adultery in criminal courts, but the punishments for it handed out by family courts can be a heck of a lot worse than a little jail time.  Not to mention that there is a significantly lower standard of evidence in a family court than in a criminal courtroom.  Fornicators don't have lobbies dedicated to making the state recongize their lifestyle.  For example, no one made a peep when Washington state stuck "common law marriage" in the rubbish bin and it's hardly a fortress of fundievangelicalism.
Personally, I can't wait until the S&M subculture gets an advocate lobby going and wants the state to assign the same legal weight to bondage guild concil decisions as court orders.
Why can't this answer be a possibility in the poll?  None of the rest of the options come even close to expressing my belief.  Not I think a serious attempt was being made to represent the people who have made negative statements about homosexual acts.
 

greekischristian

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St. Christopher said:
Why can't this answer be a possibility in the poll?  None of the rest of the options come even close to expressing my belief.  Not I think a serious attempt was being made to represent the people who have made negative statements about homosexual acts.
Because the purpose of the poll was more to analyze the psychology of such people than to give them yet another soap box.
 
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greekischristian said:
Because the purpose of the poll was more to analyze the psychology of such people than to give them yet another soap box.
I see.  The purpose wasn't really to understand why people are making these posts, it was to make fun of them.
 

ozgeorge

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St. Christopher said:
I see.  The purpose wasn't really to understand why people are making these posts, it was to make fun of them.
Well, yes.
I would have thought that was obvious.
There are over twenty other threads where these people can stand on their soap boxes (and do so). But before they do, one would hope that they would heed cleveland's advice given on one of those threads.
 

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Reminds me of a remark once made to me by a ROCOR bishop in Germany who was talking about some groups who seemed to be attracted to the Orthodox Church who were of this category and he wondered why the Church was attracting such people. 
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

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ozgeorge said:
Well, yes.
I would have thought that was obvious.
Ah, well, that seems a very Christian thing to do. Can't shut 'em up? Make fun of 'em!

Speaking for myself only here, I usually speak out against the so-called homosexual agenda forcing their minority beliefs on the entire galaxy. But as I said before, the message of the Orthodox Church needs to be heard. And though condemning homosexuality is part of that message, loving the homosexual is the impedus for condemning it, "Hate the sin, love the sinner." But that's all of us isn't it? We're all sinners who need love, not just from the Church, but from one another. You can't get someone to drink clean water when they've drank dirty water all their life until you show them clean water. But we must show them with love. That means that we love them, but at the same time that love means we also have a responsibility in helping them deal with their faults (and we all have faults).

 
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