Yet Another Gay Marriage Thread

Homosexuality comes up frequenbtly on Orthodox forums because..

  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Since drunkeness, adultery, theft and dishonesty have been eradicated it's the only sin left to figh

    Votes: 10 13.9%
  • Apparently most Orthodox Christians have lots of gay family, friends and associates

    Votes: 7 9.7%
  • Orthodox forums attract a lot of self torturing closet cases and men with doubts about thier own mas

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet.

    Votes: 15 20.8%

  • Total voters
    72
Status
Not open for further replies.

greekischristian

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
9,487
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Jibrail Almuhajir said:
Ah, well, that seems a very Christian thing to do. Can't shut 'em up? Make fun of 'em!
Well, when the only sane choices are to laugh or cry, sometimes it's better we choose the former.
 

Jonas Suender

Member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
U.S.A.
ytterbiumanalyst said:
Money, for example, was Jesus' number-one most preached-about topic, yet many of our churches fail to preach about the proper uses of money, except to encourage tithing. If Christians were as concerned about money as they were about homosexuality, we could put a significant dent in the fiscal irresponsibility this country is heavily involved in. And that's just one example. I for one would love to see on this board people tackle some really tough moral issues. I think I'll bring some up myself, as well.
And I would be genuinely interested in such a topic !  I encourage you to start a thread on it.
 

ozgeorge

Hoplitarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
54
Location
Australia
Website
www.greekorthodox.org.au
bergschlawiner said:
some groups who seemed to be attracted to the Orthodox Church who were of this category
You mean, sinners?
Sinners wanting to enter the Orthodox Church? Surely not:D

Jibrail Almuhajir said:
we also have a responsibility in helping them deal with their faults (and we all have faults).
When there are over twenty threads on this forum about the serious fault of avarice, I might take this a bit more seriously. And I also might take it seriously when people who want to do so show me their letters from their Bishops appointing them as Spiritual Fathers. A Father once wrote that fornicators will be shown more mercy on the Day of Judgement than the avarous, because the former were overcome by a powerful passion while the latter gave in to mere money. Yet I don't see twenty two threads on this forum about avarice. At any rate, when an Orthodox Christian examines faults, they should be using a mirror, not a telescope.

greekischristian said:
Well, when the only sane choices are to laugh or cry, sometimes it's better we choose the former.
And at least laughter has the power to minimise the harm done.

And finally, instead of everyone just spouting what they think is the teaching of the Church on the matter, and thereby leaving themselves open to such ridicule, perhaps they would do well to look at what the Church has actually said, and note especially the paragraph in this statement which says:
"....we must stress that persons with a homosexual orientation are to be cared for with the same mercy and love that is bestowed by our Lord Jesus Christ upon all of humanity. All persons are called by God to grow spiritually and morally toward holiness."
Somehow, I don't think what the SCOBA Bishops mean by this is that we should be caustic, ascerbic and rude to posters on this forum who have homosexual orientation, or patronizing them by telling them that "its a bitter pill, take it or leave it" when our same-sex attracted posters have probably seen more spiritual struggle and are being tried like gold in a fire tremendously more painful and purifying than these online wannabe "spiritual fathers". So yes, I think the riddicule is warranted, and sometimes is the only way to get some people off their high horse before they trample on others, thinking they are going about "God's work".

MODERATION.
The topic of this thread is the issue of homosexuality being over-discussed on Orthodox Forums. It is NOT a thread about the Church's position on homosexuality (which we all know anyway). As pointed out, there are over 20 other threads on the subject of homosexuality, and if people insist on getting on their soap boxes to discuss homosexuality itself, they should pick one of the 20 other threads. Since there are over 20 other threads to pick from for people to tell us what we already know (ie that homosexual acts are a sin) any off topic post in this thread will simply be discarded.
George
 

lubeltri

Protokentarchos
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
3,794
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
Archdiocese of Boston
ozgeorge said:
Somehow, I don't think what the SCOBA Bishops mean by this is that we should be caustic, ascerbic and rude to posters on this forum who have homosexual orientation, or patronizing them by telling them that "its a bitter pill, take it or leave it" when our same-sex attracted posters have probably seen more spiritual struggle and are being tried like gold in a fire tremendously more painful and purifying than these online wannabe "spiritual fathers".
Hear, hear! They have.
 

Heorhij

Merarches
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
8,574
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
62
Location
Columbus, MS, USA (Originally from Ukraine)
Website
www.muw.edu
I am very sorry if I sounded in any way "patronizing" in that thread in the "Faith Issues" when I replied to Zebu and said something like, "I, too, had my share of struggle with my "natural" wanton sexuality, even though I am not homosexual and happily married to a woman." It's really difficult to talk about these things on Internet forums - there really is a huge risk of inadvertently sounding "moralistic."


MODERATION.
Off Topic text removed.
The topic of this thread is the issue of homosexuality being over-discussed on Orthodox Forums. It is NOT a thread about the Church's position on homosexuality (which we all know anyway). As pointed out, there are over 20 other threads on the subject of homosexuality, and if people insist on getting on their soap boxes to discuss homosexuality itself, they should pick one of the 20 other threads. Since there are over 20 other threads to pick from for people to tell us what we already know (ie that homosexual acts are a sin) any off topic post in this thread will simply be discarded.
George

 

Tamara

Archon
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
2,208
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Jibrail Almuhajir said:
Ah, well, that seems a very Christian thing to do. Can't shut 'em up? Make fun of 'em!

Speaking for myself only here, I usually speak out against the so-called homosexual agenda forcing their minority beliefs on the entire galaxy. But as I said before, the message of the Orthodox Church needs to be heard. And though condemning homosexuality is part of that message, loving the homosexual is the impedus for condemning it, "Hate the sin, love the sinner." But that's all of us isn't it? We're all sinners who need love, not just from the Church, but from one another. You can't get someone to drink clean water when they've drank dirty water all their life until you show them clean water. But we must show them with love. That means that we love them, but at the same time that love means we also have a responsibility in helping them deal with their faults (and we all have faults).
On the Orthodox forums I have posted to the reason homosexuality comes up often usually has to do with changes in laws and education promoted by the homosexual lobby in the United States.

So while I never have hated homosexuals and have been friends with them in the past. I do hate the homosexual political agenda in the state of California because it effects my children. The eighth grade sex ed curriculum advocates that children explore their sexual identity by experimenting. Even the secular parents were up in arms about these recent changes to the curriculum. Love the sinner, hate the sin and the political agenda promoting and celebrating  the sin through public education.
 

ozgeorge

Hoplitarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
54
Location
Australia
Website
www.greekorthodox.org.au
^ Tie this post in to the topic of "Homosexuality on Orthodox Forums" or it's going bye-byes.

EDIT: Thanks Tamara for making the adjustments.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
341
Reaction score
0
Points
0
this topic keeps coming up because no one really does anything.  Some spout off tolerance agenda propaganda and call themselves more enlightened, then they proceed to mock anyone that has the gonadal fortitude to believe differently.

Orthodoxy might say homosexual acts are wrong, but most Orthodox I have met in my 4 years converted are of the same liberal thinking that condones and endorses the homosexual agenda.  Many cradle (it seems) are in no hurry to take a stand against anything, even if canon law is quite specific.  Even if their children are being inundated with graphic homosexualized education from the age of 6, they sit and ignore the future ramifications. wouldn't want to cause any politically incorrect waves would we?

It keeps coming up because any type of sexual sin is usually not limited to one person.  Homosexual sin is hardly ever monogamous or confined to respectful levels of privacy. It's gratuitously exploited for all the world to see, rammed into young minds constantly, beaten over our heads, and harming our youth.    Homosexuals are just as likely to be involved in a group supporting forcing changes on all of the rest of us, as homeschoolers  are to be involved in a co op for high school math.  Which one is more harmful?
sometimes the arrogance and mockery on here frosts my glutes.  Most of it comes from students sitting in their dorms or their parents houses on their parents nickel, instead of those actually commited to the raising of the next generation.  The former knows little actual truth from experience and have yet to see the front lines, the latter are overwhelmingly engaged in the battle and sick of the whining.
 

Veniamin

Archon
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
3,372
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Texas
calligraphqueen said:
this topic keeps coming up because no one really does anything.  Some spout off tolerance agenda propaganda and call themselves more enlightened, then they proceed to mock anyone that has the gonadal fortitude to believe differently.

Orthodoxy might say homosexual acts are wrong, but most Orthodox I have met in my 4 years converted are of the same liberal thinking that condones and endorses the homosexual agenda.  Many cradle (it seems) are in no hurry to take a stand against anything, even if canon law is quite specific.  Even if their children are being inundated with graphic homosexualized education from the age of 6, they sit and ignore the future ramifications. wouldn't want to cause any politically incorrect waves would we?

It keeps coming up because any type of sexual sin is usually not limited to one person.  Homosexual sin is hardly ever monogamous or confined to respectful levels of privacy. It's gratuitously exploited for all the world to see, rammed into young minds constantly, beaten over our heads, and harming our youth.    Homosexuals are just as likely to be involved in a group supporting forcing changes on all of the rest of us, as homeschoolers  are to be involved in a co op for high school math.  Which one is more harmful?
sometimes the arrogance and mockery on here frosts my glutes.  Most of it comes from students sitting in their dorms or their parents houses on their parents nickel, instead of those actually commited to the raising of the next generation.  The former knows little actual truth from experience and have yet to see the front lines, the latter are overwhelmingly engaged in the battle and sick of the whining.
So in other words, if you're not homeschooling half a dozen kids, you don't have anything worthwhile to say. ::)

Having been in high school and junior high and all not terribly long ago, I don't recall anything that would remotely resemble some sort of "homosexual educational agenda."  Even in college, the only time I encountered anything close to that was the small gay-rights group on campus when they sponsored coming out day and most people just thought that was silly.
 

greekischristian

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
9,487
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Veniamin said:
So in other words, if you're not homeschooling half a dozen kids, you don't have anything worthwhile to say. ::)

Having been in high school and junior high and all not terribly long ago, I don't recall anything that would remotely resemble some sort of "homosexual educational agenda."  Even in college, the only time I encountered anything close to that was the small gay-rights group on campus when they sponsored coming out day and most people just thought that was silly.
The whining we see in calligraphqueen's posts is typical of the conspiracy theorists of the evangelical protestant fundamentalists. I never heard anything even remotely advocating homosexuality in either high school or college, safe for one philosophy professor who was openly gay...go figure...and even then it was hardly a pressing agenda, his complaints essentially amounted to 'mind your own business'.

These scare tactics are simply off the wall conspiracy theories, my advice is stop reading 'Focus on the Family' propaganda literature and protect your kids from what they really need protected from, this extremist fundamentalist backwards counterculture movement you seem to be involved in; heaven forbid we be normal members of society rather than hippie holdovers. ::)
 

lubeltri

Protokentarchos
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
3,794
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
40
Location
Archdiocese of Boston
greekischristian said:
These scare tactics are simply off the wall conspiracy theories, my advice is stop reading 'Focus on the Family' propaganda literature and protect your kids from what they really need protected from, this extremist fundamentalist backwards counterculture movement you seem to be involved in; heaven forbid we be normal members of society rather than hippie holdovers. ::)
Have you been reading the latest issue of First Things or the book it recently reviewed, Preston Shires's Hippies of the Religious Right?

http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=5918
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
341
Reaction score
0
Points
0
not that i am at all shocked at the response, nor the rude comment about how many children I might be raising.  typical, arrogant.  If you are still in school then you haven't stepped out into reality yet, you aren't the ones engaged in the battle.  (whatever that battle might be for) Years ago we hosted Mel White's church within our own.  As a result I had to walk my children through that other guy's hostile hating church protesting our efforts, and got my share of insults and barbs simply for attending church with *gasp* gays!!  oh wait, barbs here too?  I tell you, these days if you take a stand for anything, there will always be some young goof with no experience to tell you you are wrong. He will likely call himself some sort of "christian" too.
You assumed I was just speaking from some right wing conspiracy handbook, but the reality is my experience is far more graphic.
I come from a family history of horrid sexual abuse, then I have survived sexual abuse myself, from a hetero perv, and I am raising one child that has survived it from a homo perv. See, your assumption was wrong.  if you must know, those are the things that have shaped my thinking, Focus on the Family wasn't capable of making a dent in that.
Sexual sin, of any kind (as i pointed out) is extremely harmful to the most vulnerable among us.  Blasting me, calling me a fundie, or telling us you didn't have any sex ed classes is irrelevant.  I didn't care for the groups you mentioned before I converted, I certainly have no idea what they are printing now.  I deal with the scars and aftershocks of sexual sin on the front lines, so yes, I do have a bit less naivete that a college student who probably has yet to make any real dent in the world.  most of us graduate and get taken down a few notches from those ivory towers, before we are of any use to anyone. You should never assume that simply because your education is more recent, then your views are more relevant. In fact, it's a good idea never to lead off with assumptions at all.
 

Veniamin

Archon
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
3,372
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Texas
Thank you for underscoring my point that you apparently think the only opinions and experiences worth hearing are those that exactly mirror your own.  Pointing out all the things that you have been through and are doing is a really flimsy rationale for dismissing everyone else's comments; however, if it serves to make you feel good about yourself, then go for it.  In the meantime, don't go claiming there's some sort of mass homosexual indoctrination in public schools when those of us who were recently there never saw any of it. 
 

Tamara

Archon
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
2,208
Reaction score
0
Points
0
greekischristian said:
The whining we see in calligraphqueen's posts is typical of the conspiracy theorists of the evangelical protestant fundamentalists. I never heard anything even remotely advocating homosexuality in either high school or college, safe for one philosophy professor who was openly gay...go figure...and even then it was hardly a pressing agenda, his complaints essentially amounted to 'mind your own business'.

These scare tactics are simply off the wall conspiracy theories, my advice is stop reading 'Focus on the Family' propaganda literature and protect your kids from what they really need protected from, this extremist fundamentalist backwards counterculture movement you seem to be involved in; heaven forbid we be normal members of society rather than hippie holdovers. ::)
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't read 'Focus on the Family' material. I am not a right-wing Republican. In fact, I am not even a Republican. I was raised to love everyone regardless of who they are or what they believe. One of the groomsman in our wedding party was gay. I dated a man who eventually admitted to being gay and continued to be his friend even though he knew I didn't agree with his lifestyle. When I was working as a graphic designer in the bay area I worked well with gay and lesbian designers, photographers, and illustrators so I am not ignorant of their lifestyle and beliefs.

But I was deeply upset when my son, who was in 5th grade at the time, came home and told me that his middle school had shown him a movie advocating the gay lifestyle and gay families as normal. I was especially angry with the covertness used to bring the program to the school by not informing the parents it would happen or give parents the ability to have their child opt out of the program. The lesbian PTA president, along with members of the teaching staff, who are gay, decided that it was in the best interest of the children to order this program for our school but not inform the parents. I find that attitude very arrogant but it is what I have come to label liberal fascism. The idea that a self-anointed elite group of people decide they know what's best for my child even if I as the parent disagree. This attitude has manifested itself in many other forms in the school district my children belong to and it finds its roots in the California Education system. I call it the education system as parent. Anyway, they were able to get the prinicipal and other teachers to buy into it. I guess I wasn't the only parent to call the principal's office to demand to see what the program entailed. The principal quickly curtailed the program because they rely on parent donation dollars to support school programs. He let it be known they would end the program for that year and they would have a parent orientation in the fall so we could see the program first. It never happened.

But what did change was the sex ed program for the 8th graders. They now teach the children in our school it is okay to experiment sexually with people of different genders to find out what your sexual identity is. This program is new so that is why you, being a single male without children, have no clue as to what is really happening in sexual education in California today.
 

ozgeorge

Hoplitarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
16,379
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
54
Location
Australia
Website
www.greekorthodox.org.au
Contrary to three warnings I have issued on this thread, it has devolved again by going off topic. You people just can't help yourselves can you? Either use one of the other 20 existing threads on homosexuality or start a new one.
 

greekischristian

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
9,487
Reaction score
0
Points
36
ozgeorge said:
Contrary to three warnings I have issued on this thread, it has devolved again by going off topic. You people just can't help yourselves can you? Either use one of the other 20 existing threads on homosexuality or start a new one.
In an indirect way I think the last tangent has helped to answer the initial question, albeit indirectly, why are people on Orthodox forums so obsessed with homoseuxality? The very fact that the arguments are emotional in nature and full of logical fallacies, coming from a 'me against the world' mindset, a martyr complex if you will, reveals much about the psychology that drives this discussion. In short it's an irrational fear arising from repressed sexuality. Take a recent post, objection to a movie that did not try to force people into being gay, but rather addressed the issue in an objective and non-judgmental light, is violently attacked as a radical homosexual agenda. It's fear, irrationality, guilt, and in many cases a very unhealthy view of one's own sexuality using religion and morality as a sword and shield...prozac can only do so much.
 

Ebor

Taxiarches
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
6,492
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
64
Location
Maryland
One thought that occurs to me is that the subject might come up so frequently because it might be an instance of "cheap righteousness", that is the idea that putting up a vehement post from behind the, as it were, shield of a computer screen, may give the writer good feelings that they are taking a stand without dealing with real human beings face to face. 

It is among the topics that I have seen written about with, shall we say, strong words and uncharitable language that do not show any concern for the feelings or empathy with other people.  (for example the "bitter pill" remark, telling someone to do something that the speaker would not and in a cruel way.)  When such a lack of charity is brought up, a very common response is that being polite/charitable/courteous would not *really* be "loving" because the target person would think that being kind meant that whatever it is that they do/are is OK.  That a real "loving" response is the verbal equivalent of a baseball bat or a dead fish up-side the head.  :-\  Then if the other person rejects the post it is all their own fault and responsibility that they are not accepting the True Way(tm) as laid down by the one who was blunt/cruel/uncharitable.  A kind of "I did my part by telling them they were wrong, and have no responsibility for them not accepting my declaration of how they should change."  Cheap righteousness- just words, no effort in dealing with another as a human being, no trying to understand the "Other"  the "Not-like-me".

I hope that that is not too convoluted.  I am not addressing this at any one, just looking at the question of the original post, and offering an idea.

With respect,

Ebor
 

Jibrail Almuhajir

Taxiarches
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
7,220
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
The Ozark Mountains
Tamara said:
On the Orthodox forums I have posted to the reason homosexuality comes up often usually has to do with changes in laws and education promoted by the homosexual lobby in the United States.

So while I never have hated homosexuals and have been friends with them in the past. I do hate the homosexual political agenda in the state of California because it effects my children. The eighth grade sex ed curriculum advocates that children explore their sexual identity by experimenting. Even the secular parents were up in arms about these recent changes to the curriculum. Love the sinner, hate the sin and the political agenda promoting and celebrating  the sin through public education.
To me, this is the crux of the matter. We must dialogue about the issue of the homosexual agenda in the public school system. I have friend who's a teacher in the PS's and he's told me of the NEA's agenda. Without being insensitive to homosexuals themselves, how do we go about addressing this issue in a loving manner?
 

alice

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
100
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Dear Tamara,

You are one of the few sane, objective, knowledgeable and charitable voices here on this matter.

Our young people are being sexually corrupted by society, and only those parents who wish to live in a 'fool's paradise' are not aware of this. Sexual corruption, whether homo or heterosexual, is happening in our elementary schools, our high schools, and most especially in the dormitories and classrooms of our colleges and universities, whom we pay top dollar to.

As for homosexuals, I,  too, like gay men and have worked with them in the fashion and interior design industries. Not wanting the 'lifestyle' taught and encouraged to our children has nothing to do with being a right wing kook. or prejudiced.  It has everything to do with being Christian and wanting to adhere to a Christian lifestyle.

Again, thank you for your sane and well written post. It seems that we are both 'cool'  and 'with it' enough mothers to appeal to those who might want to label mothers/and women as knowing not of what they speak.

I am appalled by the way that Calligraphqueen was addressed and labeled. No one should be hurt like that, or be  put on the defensive like that, on a *Christian*  forum.

In Christ our Lord,
Alice






 

greekischristian

Merarches
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
9,487
Reaction score
0
Points
36
alice said:
I am appalled by the way that Calligraphqueen was addressed and labeled. No one should be hurt like that, or be  put on the defensive like that, on a *Christian*  forum.
I wouldn't feel too appalled...if you read her posts you'll see she came out swinging, and swinging pretty low in a few instances.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top